View Full Version : Universal Player question
Pinknik
12-29-2002, 09:12 PM
Do any of these players have a complete DSD converter and a complete, but separate, PCM converter that don't criss-cross their signals until reaching the analog output? Or would a player pass an unadulterated DVD-A signal to the analog out, but also somehow convert the DSD to PCM before it went out? Just curious, as the reviews of a couple of the Pioneer universal machines seem to drop the sonic ball on SACD while doing okay (DV-47, I think) or exceptionally well (their $5000 machine) on DVD-A. Thanks.
Gary Freed
12-30-2002, 08:20 AM
Hi Pinknik,
All the current universal players not only share some audio components but there is also some video componentry tied in to the circuitry somewhere.
:)
That's sad. I wonder if someone will ever develop an "audiophile" DVD-A player / SACD player combo?
lv70smusic
12-30-2002, 09:53 AM
Since all dvd-a's to date have some video content (except for the Elvis dvd-a), and since it is certainly part of the spec, I think that even an "audiophile" universal player will need to have video circuitry.
lsupro
12-30-2002, 10:16 AM
We have two AX-10's in the studio for on air use. That convert the DSD to PCM befor the analog stage. Not that it matters on FM anyway.
Gary Freed
12-30-2002, 11:53 AM
The Pioneer AX-10 is still a highly regarded well built universal player:)
Originally posted by lv70smusic
Since all dvd-a's to date have some video content (except for the Elvis dvd-a), and since it is certainly part of the spec, I think that even an "audiophile" universal player will need to have video circuitry.
Yes, video content is part of the spec but I respectfully disagree.
I still think someone should invent such a player that can access music without video in the circutry - or in the machine - at all. Access to tracks will be via remote control and the display of the machine.
But I know what you mean, though.
And it'll never sell..... to the mass market anyway. :sigh:
Gary Freed
12-30-2002, 03:02 PM
If all DVD-A's came with a 24/192 2 channel mix and the ability to just put the disc in the player and press play to get that mix, I kind of think that
DVD-Audio would have more Audiophile fans.
lsupro
12-30-2002, 03:35 PM
Originally posted by Gary Freed
The Pioneer AX-10 is still a highly regarded well built universal player:)
We bought it cause ti was the only one that was universal and had balanced outputs. I am going to tick off some DSD purists here. It really doen't matter when it hits our air waves. You can't tell the difference.
I have been asked so many times why do you put DVD-A and SACD discs on the air. THe answer is quite simple. With the processing of my Classic Rock station, there is a real difference in sound quality between my competition playing all their music off of hard drives and me using CD, DVD-A, SACD. I have a wider soundstage, more apparent loudness, and clarity.
Where ever possible, I used DVD-A and SACD. I have been replacing the entire music library for 14 months now. I've even put a few of Steve's DCC god discs on the air, including "A Night At The Opera."
And the next question I am asked. "It should matter that the DSD is converted to PCM... why doesn't it?" My processing is 24 bit digital. The Optimod 8400 is converting it to digital. My exciter is digital. None of these items even exist with DSD processing. Plain and simple. Besides, that which you pick up in increased frequency response is negated by the bandwidth limitations of the FM band. When IBOC digital broadcast comes on-line maybe it will make a difference. Then again, maybe not... it'll be a 128k Mpeg stream. XM and Sirius are 64k streams. We'll just have to see.
Gary Freed
12-30-2002, 04:08 PM
Hi Bill,
Your station sounds like it's ahead of the competition. Do you transmit over the web?
Oh by the way: My 12 Year Old was wearing his number 34 Saints Jersey
today. Remember him? It's ashame that he had people problems ...good athlete. Philly had a shot at Ricky Williams but chose Donovan McNab instead.
lsupro
12-30-2002, 06:51 PM
No Gary we don't. I'd rather used the money we'd have to pay BMI and ASCAP for webcasting on Cool toys to stay ahead of the competition.
We were the first station in America to broadcast DVD-A and SACD and outside of some NPR stuff are the only station that is doing on a consistent basis.
Our budget is tight.. we market a whole lot. Helps keep us top of mind and in turn keeps the ratings high.
Webcasting is very low priority. We are re-doing th website now. It has been on the back burner. In our research is was very low in priority for listeners to make the station their favorite.
www.eagle981.com
Should be up by February.
Gary Freed
12-30-2002, 07:06 PM
10 in a row Classic ROck
10 songs between each commercial break?
Holy Zoo
12-30-2002, 07:57 PM
Originally posted by lsupro
I've even put a few of Steve's DCC god discs on the air
That's the most perfectly appropriate typo that I've possibly ever seen!
HZ
Gary Freed
12-30-2002, 08:14 PM
Gosh - I completely missed that typo - good catch!
A Freudian slip by Bill no doubt!:agree: :righton:
lsupro
12-30-2002, 09:37 PM
Originally posted by Holy Zoo
That's the most perfectly appropriate typo that I've possibly ever seen!
HZ
LMAO!
My spelling and typing are atrocious. Spelling... geepers.. hard to believe a made it through 10 years of college. My mother always told me it was a sign of brilliance... or was it me that kept telling me that?... hummm
lsupro
12-30-2002, 09:40 PM
Originally posted by Gary Freed
10 in a row Classic ROck
10 songs between each commercial break?
Not every commercial break. We are playing a 10 in-a-row sweep every hour outside of morning drive. Mornings are talk, with 2 songs an hour.
Its a programming technique called floating stopsets.
Gary Freed
12-31-2002, 07:18 AM
Hey HZ !
Can you program a spell checker for Bill?
I could probably use one too!
lsupro
12-31-2002, 09:37 AM
Originally posted by Gary Freed
Hey HZ !
Can you program a spell checker for Bill?
I could probably use one too!
Believe it or not.. I use it. My two big blunders were "god discs" and "part pooper" Part and god are legit words. I am just too damn lazy to proofread.
How's that for honesty?
Rspaight
12-31-2002, 10:36 AM
I still think someone should invent such a player that can access music without video in the circutry - or in the machine - at all. Access to tracks will be via remote control and the display of the machine.
And it'll never sell..... to the mass market anyway.
My $500 (not mass market, but cheap for a universal player) Pioneer Elite DV-45A has a button that lets you shut off the video circuitry (though, oddly, you can't turn off the front panel display).
This is great until you forget you've turned it on, then go to pay a DVD and tear your hair out trying to figure out why you're not seeing a picture. :)
Ryan
Holy Zoo
12-31-2002, 07:18 PM
Originally posted by Gary Freed
Hey HZ !
Can you program a spell checker for Bill?
I could probably use one too!
Hey Gary!
There's already a spell checker! Click the "Spell Check" button to the right of the "Submit Reply" button.
HZ
Gary Freed
12-31-2002, 10:04 PM
Hi HZ!
Oh That spell checker! Silly me. :laugh: :goodie: :bigeek: :righton:
Something my Wife said to me the other day that some men don't know how to use spell checkers. Now I understand what she was trying to tell me. I must be suffering from tunnel vision. ;) :shh: :help:
That spell checker is pretty fast! I'm impressed.
I don't ask for directions, though...
GoldenBoy
01-01-2003, 04:44 AM
Originally posted by Rspaight
My $500 (not mass market, but cheap for a universal player) Pioneer Elite DV-45A has a button that lets you shut off the video circuitry (though, oddly, you can't turn off the front panel display).
This is great until you forget you've turned it on, then go to pay a DVD and tear your hair out trying to figure out why you're not seeing a picture. :)
Ryan
But does it or does it not convert the DSD signal to PCM? Oh, and how do you play those DVD-A discs that require you to use those on-screen menus?
GoldenBoy
01-01-2003, 04:50 AM
Originally posted by lsupro
We bought it cause ti was the only one that was universal and had balanced outputs. I am going to tick off some DSD purists here. It really doen't matter when it hits our air waves. You can't tell the difference.
I have been asked so many times why do you put DVD-A and SACD discs on the air. THe answer is quite simple. With the processing of my Classic Rock station, there is a real difference in sound quality between my competition playing all their music off of hard drives and me using CD, DVD-A, SACD. I have a wider soundstage, more apparent loudness, and clarity.
Where ever possible, I used DVD-A and SACD. I have been replacing the entire music library for 14 months now. I've even put a few of Steve's DCC god discs on the air, including "A Night At The Opera."
And the next question I am asked. "It should matter that the DSD is converted to PCM... why doesn't it?" My processing is 24 bit digital. The Optimod 8400 is converting it to digital. My exciter is digital. None of these items even exist with DSD processing. Plain and simple. Besides, that which you pick up in increased frequency response is negated by the bandwidth limitations of the FM band. When IBOC digital broadcast comes on-line maybe it will make a difference. Then again, maybe not... it'll be a 128k Mpeg stream. XM and Sirius are 64k streams. We'll just have to see.
I can see why it wouldn't make a difference going over the airwaves. Radio just doesn't sound that great anyway, and there are so many other factors that go into the sound of a broadcast that differences in DSD or PCM, if you believe there are any, are negated. There's hardly a difference in the sound of vinyl and CD over the radio, IMO, outside of some obvious pops and clicks that might appear on vinyl. All of the EQ'ing, compressing, limiting and interference pretty much see to that.
lsupro
01-01-2003, 06:10 AM
Originally posted by GoldenBoy
There's hardly a difference in the sound of vinyl and CD over the radio, IMO, outside of some obvious pops and clicks that might appear on vinyl. All of the EQ'ing, compressing, limiting and interference pretty much see to that.
Well, to be honest, most stations didn't play vinyl the bulk of the time. They dubbed the vinyl to cart (8track) and played it from there with some noise reduction in line.. phase chasers and some other toys to improve the sound. After 15 or 20 plays on the air, an album got cue burn in the quarter turn before the music started.
The processing of the stations was also different. I didn't have any processing knowledge for FM wen the air chain was 100% analog. I do know it was processed differently. A good engineer now will process to add fatness to the sound that is not there due to CD's and MPEG Hard Drives. Vinyl and Carts were fat and needed different processing. I can tell you this, we wouldn't be processed the same now if we were analog.
Stations we compressing and leveling and multi-banding 30 years ago too. It was just done differently. Steve could attest to that.
My engineer is brilliant. He knows how to cheat the equipment to get the best sound out of it. He has really taught me alot. Kudos to Mr. Hoover!
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