Followup: My MC240 review

[Dean De Furia]

Well, It took longer than I wished but I'm finally getting around to posting this review. For those who didn't read my earlier thread, I purchased a really nice early-vintage Mcintosh MC240 really because I was curious about how it would sound. I'm not pretending to be a professional reviewer here, just some honest comments from a music buff.
I wanted to find the right tubes for it but I had to settle a little bit. I couldn't find a decent quad of GE 6l6gc's so I put in a set of Sventlana's which seem to get good reviews for a current production tube. I also exchanged the Telefunken 12AU7's for Mullard "box plate" versions. The 12AX7's are the original Telefunkens and the 12BH7's are RCA.

My evaluation equipment consists of:
Audible Illussions M3A with NOS Amperex Bugle Boys
Sony SCD-777ES cd/sacd player
Music Hall MMF-7 w/ Shure V15xMR
Legacy Focus speakers (98db efficiency)
Cary V-12 tube amp
Harman Kardon Citation II (rebuilt/upgraded) tube amp
Outlaw interconnects and Monster Speaker wire
Getz/Gilberto SACD
Nat Cole- "Love Is The Thing" DCC CD
Linda Rondstadt- "Hasten Down The Wind" Electra LP
Pink Floyd- "Dark Side Of The Moon" UD1 CD

Well, as Steve predicted, I found the Phillips output tubes that came with it too bright. The Sventlana's I put in sound very nice: balanced and well-rounded.

Now I know what the Mac signature sound is: a Sweet delicate midrange, Smooth slightly rolled off highs and a fairly lightweight bass. In comparison, the Harman Kardon has fantastic bass, extended highs but a laid-back midrange. The Cary also has a great midrange, decent bass, but the highs are not as smooth as the Mac.
Here Goes:
First up, I played the Nat Cole disc- OMIGOD! This the BEST I've ever heard him sound in my room! The forward midrange of the Mac makes his voice so lifelike, that when I closed the lights, it wasn't too hard to create an illusion of him being in the room. The same can be said for the Getz/Gilberto disc: upfront midrange, sweet highs, but a little lacking in the bass.
Linda sounded very natural on the cut "Crazy", the light percussion sounded "real" and her voice sounded seductive and so very delicate.
The only dissapointment was with Pink Floyd. The Mac just didn't have enough juice to faithfully reproduce the bass at any real volume.

The more I play the Mac, the more I'm falling in love. This is going to be a keeper. Now, lets see, could I Bi-amp with the HK on the bottom?............

[Steve Hoffman]

Don't forget to try the 8 and 4 ohm taps with the Legacy Focus speakers.

Also, the power tubes are crucial. If you want more top end, get a pair of RCA black plate 6L6 GC's, if you want double the magic midrange, get the GE's.....


Have fun.....

[Gary]

I have a quad (4) of RCA black plate 6L6's. I think I used them only once - give me that mid range magic!

PS I believe Steve meant to say a quad of tubes, not a pair....

[indy mike]

Say boys - how's a 6L6 compare in a sonic rock 'em, sock slugfest with the EL-34??? I've been around the block with EL-34's (grew up listening to Amperex matched quartets coming home for pop's kit built Dynaco ST-70), and I'm using Siemens swell take on those venerable tooobs...

[Steve Hoffman]

Well, it's a toss up.

I prefer 6L6GC's over EL-34's, but I just love that 6L6 sound. It's the sound of every good Fender guitar amp ever made! (Of course that means nothing, but I feel the 6L6GC is the most linear tube out there for not much $$).

[Dean De Furia]

Steve. Do you feel I should bi-wire the 4 ohm taps to the bass section and the 8 ohm taps to the upper/mids? Or am I missing the point here?

[Steve Hoffman]

You need to see what the speakers sound like single-wired off of one tap. I'm predicting the 8 ohm, but you should play something (I use the left channel--bass & drums, compressed but a good test) of the Beatles "I Feel Fine". Which ever sounds the most open and dynamic to you. Then, try something else that you like that is a really dynamic recording and concentrate on the rest of the spectrum. (Not in the bi-wired mode, but with all speakers going). Then, report back here!

Does this make sense? I haven't eaten dinner yet....

[indy mike]

Originally posted by Steve Hoffman
Well, it's a toss up.

I prefer 6L6GC's over EL-34's, but I just love that 6L6 sound. It's the sound of every good Fender guitar amp ever made! (Of course that means nothing, but I feel the 6L6GC is the most linear tube out there for not much $$).

Hmmm, never having played anything other than air guitar, I'll have to defer to you on this! :)

[Jeffrey]

Hi Dean,

I'm also a 240 owner/lover :) and hadda couple questions for ya......

Did ya use a pre-amp or plug the sacd/cd players directly into the 240? Have ya compared the sound with and without a pre?

For vinyl, what do ya plan on using for a pre since ya are keeping the 240?

Ya mentioned that the 240 hadda fairly lightweight bass.... can ya give a more detailed opinion on the bass?

Thanks,
Jeffrey

[Dean De Furia]

Jeff,
I plugged the Cd player into the AA pre-amp then into the 240. The AA has a great built-in phono stage.
I was comparing the bass of the 240 to my restored Harman Kardon Citation which uses KT-88 output tubes. The HK has tighter, more powerful bass but the 240 has that midrange to die for! The Legacy's have 3 12" woofers per side so perhaps the 240 just doesn't have enough juice to really pump up the bass. I suspect with a more conventional one woofer per-side peaker system the 240 would fare better.

[Jeffrey]

Hi Dean,

Thanks!

The 240 mid's are very amazing/life-like! I love that sound and find that I frequently/mostly play cd's that match up well with it such as cd's with lotsa vocals and acoustic instruments.

I'm running the 240 w/ speakers that have an 8" and 10" woofer. The 240 has no problem driving them but this is clearly the weakness of the 240. I find the bass slow, muddy, and loose. I'm NOT willing to sacrifice the mid's in order to do anything about the bass. :) I crank the bass down and love the sound. It sounds like your Legacys do that for ya! :)

-Jeffrey

[Gary]

Jeffrey, I actually had my MX110 preamp modified and created two Aux. inputs. Originally it had one aux. input and I had the Tape Head (for a reel to reel tape, I believe) modified to an aux. to accept another CDP.

Well, actually, one aux. is for the SACD machine and one aux. is for the CDP!

So I have no requirement to connect a CDP directly to the MC240 amp... so far!

[Jeffrey]

Originally posted by Gary
So I have no requirement to connect a CDP directly to the MC240 amp... so far!

Hi Gary,

Have ya tried a CDP direct to the 240? It really changes the sound. In some ways I like it more but mostly I prefer using a pre. :) Which pre, really changes the sound also. Dean is probably getting a completely different sound than we are by using vintage McIntosh pre's. I wish we all lived right across the street from each other so we could hear each others rig. :)

-Jeffrey

[Gary]

I've not tried a CDP directly to the amp! I'm afraid of losing the MX110 "sound" (with all those yummy Telefunken 12AX7's!). I really should - one day!

Well.... you live in south Texas and I live in southern Ontario.... we can't really be THAT far apart, can we? ;)

And we can route ourselves past Deans place.... a "short" roadtrip! :D

[Dean De Furia]

Count me in! Road trip!
I'm curious about how the MX-110 affects the sound. My AA tends to be quite neutral. I know it's not "accurate" but I would love to hear it!

[Jeffrey]

Hi Dean,

I have a 1960 McIntosh C-20 that probably has a different sound than Gary's MX-110 so I can't answer the 110?. Hey Gary :)

-Jeffrey

[Gary]

:D

Well, my MX110 sounds better than your preamps. :p Naa-naa. ;)

Just kidding! :)

What can I say? It sounds great! I've never hooked up my other pre to compare but I can say it's very accurate but not neutral. You can almost touch the drum echo during the first 15 seconds on CCR's Fortunate Son (a test recommended by Steve).

:) I'm a happy camper. :)

[Dean De Furia]

You know, I have a real clean Dynaco Pas-3X that has Dynaco/Telefunken 12AX7's in it. I bet that would approximate the sound you Guys are getting. I'm going to have to dig that thing out of the attic and try it out. I'll let you know!

[indy mike]

Our pal Steve pushed me gently towards getting a tubed preamp (PAS-3X with Tele 12AX7's - yahoo!) to go with the Dyna MK IV's I have (again with the magical midrange/flabby bass) - those boys in the preamp make things extra twinkly...

[Dean De Furia]

I did try both the 4 and 8 ohm taps and found that the 8 ohm taps had more "oomph". I don't know if it's the tubes burning in or what, but this thing is sounding sweeter everyday. I don't even miss the tight bass the other amp has. The Bear Family Dean Martin sounds so good it's scary.
Gotta dig that Dyna out!

[Gary]

Dean, as you are busy investigating preamp combinations, I was wondering what interconnects you like best for mid-range without sacrificing high end and low end detail?

I noticed that you have "Outlaw" interconnects. Have you compared them with Kimber silver streaks?

Jeffrey, any thoughts on interconnects for / from your system experiences?

I have Kimber silver streaks. They're great - oodles and oodles of detail from the low to the high end! I am always looking for better - different? interconnects... and I am always trying to find the best match.... as long as I can get my money back! :D

[indy mike]

Say, have you tried the Dyna preamp out yet??? More twinkle will come your way....

[Jeffrey]

Originally posted by Gary
Jeffrey, any thoughts on interconnects for / from your system experiences?


Hi Gary,

I'm just keeping it simple with some monster cables. Since my amp & pre are both from the 60's (with fairly basic circuits and wires) the monster cables seem sufficient, IMO.

-Jeffrey

[Gary]

Do you use monster interconects (between your preamp and amp) too?

I believe Steve used monster speaker cables....

[Dean De Furia]

Gary, No I haven't hooked up the PAS-3x yet but I also have a PAS-4 ( the 1996 version) with 7038 Amperex gold pins and so far this is the best combinatin yet. Very sweet! I haven't tried the Kimbers but the Outlaws are a very well built cable that is reasonably priced and sounds excellent in my system. I highly recommend them. I also tried Sylvania grey plate 7351's in the place of the 12AX7's in my phono stage and in the Mac and it seems to have better focus and low level detail. They are pretty cheap ($12-$15) each and might be worth a try if your system is too "thick".