The TV broadcast of Don Larsen's perfect '56 WS game...

[guy incognito]

...has been preserved on kinescope, and its owner has made its existence public.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/2006-10-24-perfect-game-focus_x.htm

Neat!

[Mark]

Too bad that it starts with the second inning.

[theoxrox]

Man, that was a blast to see Duke Snider again......

[gates69]

Doak Ewing who owns that footage is an odd guy. I actually collect along with a lot of other guys old sporting events on dvd. There is a pretty big underground circuit of people who do it but don't ever tell him that. The stories of him going off on several collectors and preaching to them that what they were doing was wrong is legendary. I think it's great to preserve old footage like this but I think collectors should be able to share it without having to pay him $25 to $40 for a dvd or a vhs tape of it.

[Joel Cairo]

I'm glad he finally fessed up-- I've been sittting on that info for far too long!

And I might as well take this opportunity to mention that I've ferreted out the footage of Roger Maris' 61st home run, as well...

So how's all that for an early double Christmas present, sports fans!

-Kevin

[gates69]

Now if he would only make it available to the masses!

[Indy500]

I've been buying racing tapes (and now dvds) from Doak for over 15 years and talk to him in Indianapolis every May. Before he sells anything he actually does some restoration work on the films. I think it only fair that he be compensated for that, along with tracking these things down. The quality of his work speaks for itself.

[gates69]

And that's great that he does it but he also comes from a whole different school of thought when it comes to trading. The stories are legendary about him and how he has gone psycho on a lot of collectors.

[guy incognito]

Incidentally, this is sort of off-topic for the Visual Arts forum but I wanted to put in a plug for John Miley's astounding collection of old *radio* broadcasts, also mentioned in that USA Today article.

If you go to http://www.vendiamo.com there's a little sketch history of Mr. Miley and his collection, a link to where you can buy authorized CD versions of several games (as well as audio links to hear what they sound like), and a mailing address for Miley to send you his complete catalog. I highly recommend checking it out!

1968 World Series, Game 1 (http://www.vendiamo.com/MileyCollection/promos/1968G1.mp3) - Ernie Harwell calls Bob Gibson's record-setting 17th strikeout :(

1968 World Series, Game 5 (http://www.vendiamo.com/MileyCollection/promos/1968G5.mp3) - Pee Wee Reese and Jack Buck call Lou Brock getting thrown out at the plate :D

[tim_neely]

I'm glad he finally fessed up-- I've been sittting on that info for far too long!

And I might as well take this opportunity to mention that I've ferreted out the footage of Roger Maris' 61st home run, as well...

So how's all that for an early double Christmas present, sports fans!

-Kevin
Now, if someone can find either the CBS or NBC broadcast of Super Bowl I... I just saw an article somewhere that calls that lost footage the ultimate football memorabilia Holy Grail.

[bencasey]

Well, nice, he finally went public with the fact he's had it for many years. He also has game 1 of 1955 and 1 and 7 of 1957 as well. Doesn't do any good as he won't let them out. He tried to sell the Larsen game and was asking $150,000 from the networks for it. No one is going to pay that. But, yeah, he is a strange guy. He calls anyone who trades tapes a bootlegger, as if he is the rights holder on the stuff he sells. And he also is not to be trusted. I found the complete 1965, 68, & 70 World Series as well as the first 2 games of 69 and the 68 All-Star Game. I told MLB about them in exchange for them making me copies. He almost ****ed up my deal by telling them I was a bootlegger, which I am not. I don't mind talking to him but I know to be wary of him. As for him charging money for his tapes, he's entitled as is anyone who puts in the time, effort and money to acquire rare material. I love how people want others to do all of the work and then just give them material. Sorry, but it doesn't work that way. I've spent tens of thousands of dollars building my collection and I don't just hand it over to folks.

[gates69]

As for him charging money for his tapes, he's entitled as is anyone who puts in the time, effort and money to acquire rare material. I love how people want others to do all of the work and then just give them material. Sorry, but it doesn't work that way. I've spent tens of thousands of dollars building my collection and I don't just hand it over to folks.

I totally agree with you and I myself have paid many times for games I wanted to add to my collection. I understand that the only way to "free" some of these rare gems is to grease somebody's palm. I guess the point I was trying to make is that with the technology we have today games are easily circulated. Unless some deal is struck between the two people trading the stuff will make the rounds. That's why many top level guys want to recoupe some of their investment before they let stuff out. The fact that he doesn't seem to understand that and rips apart guys who do it when in fact what he is doing is probably questionable makes him a piece of work.
I appreciate that he has saved a lot of this footage but after I pay him I'm going to do with it as I please.
Now correct me if I'm wrong but do the complete 1965 and 1968 World Series circulate among collector's?? I thought games 1, 2, 5 & 7 from '65 and 1, 2, 5 & 7 from '68 are all that's out there. Is it a case of the high level guys sitting on these gems for now??

[bencasey]

Now correct me if I'm wrong but do the complete 1965 and 1968 World Series circulate among collector's?? I thought games 1, 2, 5 & 7 from '65 and 1, 2, 5 & 7 from '68 are all that's out there. Is it a case of the high level guys sitting on these gems for now??

I don't really know. Thanks to Doak, the only way I was able to get MLB to honor their word to me was to sign a legal agreement that I would not make any copies for anyone. However, that doesn't preclude people who have or make contacts with guys who work at MLB from getting copies out, which I'm sure has happened.


As for people doing as they please with stuff after they pay for it, well, that's why guys like him don't let things out. I've been involved in deals for getting material (TV shows mostly) where I wanted to get others to chip in financially. However, if I am making an arrangement and I'm the one signing a legal agreement not to copy it, and I'm the one putting in the time and energy to do a deal, I'm not going to take in a partner who's then going to start trading or selling it. As the lead person, if something gets out, it's my *** they'll come looking for. That aside, I'll be damned if I'm going to work countless hours, days and months on trying to put a deal together so someone else can take it and sell it on the internet. I learned a long time ago that most people's verbal agreements aren't worth the paper they're (not) written on when I traded a guy Super Bowl 3 and then found out it was being sold all over the country. There's too many greedy people, too many collectors who don't have good jobs or much money or any integrity for that matter. So, as much of a p***k as Doak can be, in some regard I have to go along with him.

[gates69]

I don't think it's fair to lump everyone together. As I said if I was asked to not circulate something I would not. There have been a few things that I have gotten that have been rare and the person I got it from didn't want it widely circulated so it would still have some value to them to make rare trades with. And it's also unfair to assume everybody is doing it for profit. I trade plain and simple and have never sold a game anywhere on the internet.
Any chance you are a member over at the sports game trading board on Aimoo??

[bencasey]

No, I've never even heard of it. I work in the industry and I use my contacts to pull stuff. I don't really have a desire to deal with people trading in 4th generation dubs, which I'm sure that site is full of.

[gates69]

No, I've never even heard of it. I work in the industry and I use my contacts to pull stuff. I don't really have a desire to deal with people trading in 4th generation dubs, which I'm sure that site is full of.

So just because you never heard of something makes it no good??
Sorry to inform you that's it the best site for those who enjoy the hobby of collecting and trading sporting events.
Seems like some people around here are full of themselves! :sigh:

[Ron Stone]

Wasn't there an "asterisk" moment in that perfect game?

[Marty Milton]

That was a real treat seeing the footage. I was 7 at the time, but have no memory of that game or series. I remember that most, if not all, the world series games were played during the day. I remember when I was in high school from 1963 to 1967 that if we had a study hall during a world series game we could go to the gym stage and watch it.

[tim_neely]

I remember that most, if not all, the world series games were played during the day.
Indeed. The first World Series game played at night wasn't until Wednesday, October 13, 1971, in Game 4 between the Piitsburgh Pirates and Baltimore Orioles, at Three Rivers Stadium in Pittsburgh. Alas, today they are ALL played at night, even on the weekends; the afternoons have been surrendered 100% to football.

[Marty Milton]

Indeed. The first World Series game played at night wasn't until Wednesday, October 13, 1971, in Game 4 between the Piitsburgh Pirates and Baltimore Orioles, at Three Rivers Stadium in Pittsburgh. Alas, today they are ALL played at night, even on the weekends; the afternoons have been surrendered 100% to football.

I didn't know that the first night game wasn't unitl 1971. In the scheme of things that is a relatively short time ago. Thanks for the info.

[RDK]

Reading about this only makes me appreciate all the more the "younger generation's" mindset of openly sharing (and thus disseminating and preserving) "rare" music and video on the internet. I can certainly understand the need to recoup costs when possible, but I have a higher regard for those who are willing to share freely due to their love of the material than just as a way to make a buck.

[bencasey]

For whatever reason, and I collect both, music collectors are all about sharing while video collectors tend to be about hoarding. I don't know why that is but it basically has to do with value I think. If you have a rare record, you could burn a copy for someone but you'll still have the record and the value won't decrease. If you have a videotape that's rare, it doesn't really have an intrinsic monetary value. The only value is of the rarity of the recording itself, not the actual tape as opposed to a record. I don't know if that's the answer but it seems logical to me.

[guy incognito]

I didn't know that the first night game wasn't unitl 1971. In the scheme of things that is a relatively short time ago. Thanks for the info.

Then, from 1972-1984, the format was weekday games at night, weekend games in the afternoon. The last World Series game to be played entirely in natural sunlight was, I believe, Game 4 in 1984 (which started at 2 p.m. Detroit time).

After all-night Series in '85 and '86, MLB responded to fan and media complaints with a single day game in '87 (played, oddly enough, indoors at the Metrodome in Minneapolis), and that was it. Some of the West Coast Series games will begin in daylight, of course, but they're not considered true day games.

Bud Selig expressed a desire this year to bring back at least one day game each WS, but I expect network TV will continue to pull the strings here. As a fan, my hope is actually that ratings eventually get miniscule enough to make start times more or less irrelevant. IMO, Series games should start no later than 3 p.m. in the time zone of each game's host site.

[Drawer L]

For whatever reason, and I collect both, music collectors are all about sharing while video collectors tend to be about hoarding. I don't know why that is but it basically has to do with value I think. If you have a rare record, you could burn a copy for someone but you'll still have the record and the value won't decrease. If you have a videotape that's rare, it doesn't really have an intrinsic monetary value. The only value is of the rarity of the recording itself, not the actual tape as opposed to a record. I don't know if that's the answer but it seems logical to me.Now,Now,Mr.Casey,we're not ALL like that........:D(bet you'd never see me post in a SPORTS thread!!!)

[bencasey]

Did you get lost?