Lee Morgan - Sidewinder - best version CD or LP

I can't believe a label like Classic Records or MOFI haven't done this great LP.

OR have they?

I'm after the best sounding version be it vinyl or CD - I understand that the latest RVG master is not good, so what do I get?

Is there an " audiophile" version?

Or is it just the original US vinyl ?

thanks

 

I bought a 180 gram Blue Note (US pressing) which Michael Fremer raved about in the Tracking Angle a couple of years back. I have nothing else to compare it to but it sounds goods to these ears.
JG

 

I'll say this: RVG made some strange choices with the reissues; they're stereo, but, sound like very wide, diffused mono. I'm sure the Blue Note purists were highly offended these didn't have the hard left and right panning. That said, there's a relaxed quality to the sound and a wealth of inner detail that is presented in a much more pleasing way than any of the 1987 Capitol distributed Blue Note CDs done by Ron McMaster -- I find most of those CDs earbleeders and unlistenable. There's a 1994 Japanese issue (TOJC-4157) of The Sidewinder that's not harsh sounding (with just enough convincing brassy bite) and gives you more of the hard panned left and right mix an original Blue Note LP would offer. I like this version quite a bit. The RVG is worth having (probably not as offensive as a lot of people make out), and if nothing else, worth checking out for the alternate take of "Totem Pole".

The 1996 Live at the Lighthouse has a killer version of "The Sidewinder" and is highly recommended.

 

I'd not say the RVG is no good. Im sure you can easily get it for less than 10 bucks. For that price, give it a shot and judge for yourself. Im OK with it.

 

thanks I thought that RVG were to stay away from.

Am I the only one surprised that a Audiophile Reissue label has not done this title?


Steve? please put it on your very long list !

 

None of the Blue Note albums have a very hard left/hard right sound to them. They were all recorded live, so there is a tremendous amount of bleeding in between channels. That gives them a more pleasing sound. That being said, some of the RVG's have some narrowing, but the vast majority of them do not.

However, I do not agree that the McMasters are ear bleeders. Every McMaster CD that I have compared to the RVG's sounds better than the RVG. Including "Sidewinder".

 

Maybe it's because the recording doesn't sound very good, like many other post-1964 Blue Note sessions

 

Tim - You might find this thread of interest:

http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=36454&pp

I was thinking about what I wrote before -- Blue Note purists would probably prefer mono.

 

There a couple of LP's I would like to see Classic do that I frankly surprised that they haven't yet.

Sidewinder is one then how about Dexter Gordon's GO, Eric Dolphy's Out to Lunch, Larry Young's Unity those are some of the classic Blue Note's and for the life of me I can't understand why they haven't tackled Mingus's Dynasty.
I don't have major problems with the CD's but still think that Classic could very much improve on them.

 

another side - In relative terms, Blue Notes may not be as hard left and hard right as some albums, but, they are certainly more "speaker centric" and panned feeling than albums that float images behind and between speakers (which seems much more natural and gives a sense of continuous space.)

Like all things audio, YMMV, but, I find the 1987 Capitol Blue Notes offensive to my ears. This isn't a dig at Ron McMaster's skills, but, a criticism of the technology and/or its usage at the time.

 

The Sidewinder is a nice album, and I'd welcome (and buy) a well-done audiophile CD or LP if it was done.

However, if someone were to pick one Morgan album to give the special treatment to, there are certainly better albums he made to choose from.

 

I'm in this camp also. After being burned on the first couple of rounds of RVG's, I just stay away now. Unless it's a title I can't find otherwise like Grant Green's GOIN' WEST.

 

I think it's impossible to generalize. There are good and poor sounding RVGs, and those who sound poor suffer from differing flaws. I've noticed a recent tendency of the RVGs to sound closer to the McMasters.

For some titles, the McMaster sounds best, for others the RVG, or the JRVG, or the TOCJ. And there are titles - such as Sidewinder - which don't sound good in any CD version.

 

What Claude said...a case by case basis.

Oh, and the alt. of "Totem Pole" is on the original McMastered disc as well...

 

Like what? I've been wanting more ever since I got Sidewinder! Search for the New Land looks promising especially because of Grant Green's appearance!

As for the RVG Sidewinder, I think it's great!

 

I agree that there are good and not so good sounding RVG's (I don't know if any sounds poor - at least none that I have heard). I have also noticed that the RVG's sound closer to the McMasters as time goes on.

But which RVG's do you think sound better than the McMasters?

 

We touched on this little bit in this thread.

There is a lot of varying sound quality in the RVG series.

 

I remember that thread, but I was curious about Claude’s opinion. Midnight Blue is one of the few RVG’s that I ended up keeping, btw.

 

The RVG CD sounds really compressed. The McMaster CD is more open but it sounds very cold and hard. The horns can be pretty strident too. But didn't Van Gelder record a lot of Blue Note albums that way? Not a fan of that sound.

 

Sidewinder was one of the best selling Blue Notes (after all, the single made the top 100). This and Herbie Hancock's Maiden Voyage were the two Blue Note originals that I most often saw at record shows and record stores when one can still buy Blue Notes at record shows and record stores (10 years ago?). At that time, the market price for a NM original copy of each was about $40 and anyone in their right mind (unless they were carried away by the slogan of "audiophile", "180-gram" or "remaster" or they had no access to a record store or record show or a mail-order record dealer) back then would pay $30 for a mediocre reissue. Please remember that the Japanese King pressings of this record sound as good (if not better, and which were also quite available at the time) as the original and there were Liberty and other later Blue Note, RVG-mastered reissues which were quite available. I actually think that Classic made the right business call in not reissuing it. Besides, all of the Classic Blue Note reissues have a common problem of the higher frequencies sounding thin, tinny, etc. (probably an indication of the master tapes not being up to par due to age, not an indication of poor mastering).

If I were you, I would look for the US "New York, USA" original vinyl, or "A Division of Liberty" blue/white second pressing, black/blue "van gelder" later pressing, or Japanese King. I see these on eBay very often, probably at least one of those will be on eBay in any given week or two. And a clean copy (probably not the original) should not set you back more than $40.

If you are looking into digital, I would recommend the Japanese CD from the early 90's (or was it late 80's?). Some of them sounded thin but still much better than ANY digital versions since. None of these Japanese original Blue Note CDs are as good as the vinyl versions that I recommend above, but they are still the best digital option and you will notice a significant improvement over any other digital version after the Japanese 80's/early 90's CDs.

 

Tom Port sold me a fantastic sounding (for this album) LP of this years ago. It's a 70's blue label issue. Nice fat sound to the horns, good swing, etc. It's one of his copies that he sold for quite a few bucks more than it'd book for, so I won't give away the dead area info. But look around for one of these - you might get a good one. It shouldn't cost much...

 

well, if it's a 70's black-writing-on-blue label and it was sold as a 'hot stamper', it must have 'Van Gelder' in the dead wax, no? i just bought a copy of a black-on-blue The Real McCoy with the 'Van Gelder' stamp and it sounds amazing. myriad later blue labels have all sucked in my cursory in-store auditions.

 

Here is what Michael Fremer said about the 180 gram vinyl from 1997.

''This set of Blue Note LPs is a big improvement over the Connoisseur Series vinyl which was mastered from Dolby A tapes, and which sounded somewhat dark, airless and sometimes downright phasey due to what sounded like head alignment problems. These 'Blue Note Essentials' are worthwhile and well mastered and pressed.
''This set's cover sticker says 'Mastered from the original analog tapes' and I believe it.''

JG

 

Are the Blue Note "Connoisseur Series" anything different ?

 

They are not supposed to be of the best quality!
JG