Laserdisc advice

[lil.fred]

So, I know it seems a little late, but I'm wanting to get a LaserDisc player ... second hand, obviously ... would any members like to advise me before I plunge into eBay?

Thanks! (In case you're wondering what pushed me over the edge, it was the Fantasia DVD release and the Hard Day's Night DVD release, too ... as well.)

[Ed Bishop]

Before you go to eBay...since you live in the DC area, research used audio hardware shops first; I've seen laserdisc players at a few I frequent. Pioneer is generally considered the best of the manufacturers and kept the format going in the early years when sales were even worse than near the end(the format just never took off, but the late '80s/early '90s were reasonably successful). When it comes to used hardware, I'd rather buy it locally(in my case, regionally)just in case it doesn't work out or something's wrong with it. Some titles on LD you still can't get on DVD; and some have better, wider dynamics than many DVDs, which use compression, something most listeners don't notice unless they have an LD for reference.

ED:cool:

PS: AHDN on Criterion isn't letterboxed, but does have the stereo songs. FANTASIA can be found in a deluxe CAV box set(very attractive)and a CLV edition with less goodies. I won't say the picture is better on either LD, but it is different, and I prefer the LD ending of the film to the DVD. I like the sound mix on LD better.

[Gary]

Stupid question time: If Fantasia and AHDN is on DVD, why do you want a laserdisc player.... ?

[lil.fred]

Originally posted by Gary
Stupid question time: If Fantasia and AHDN is on DVD, why do you want a laserdisc player.... ?

Short answer time:

1. Lots of people seem to prefer laserdiscs. Though a laser reads the disc, LD is (was) an analog format.

2. AHDN: see the many postings over the last 2 months or so on this site, RE: the recent re-release, ranging from disappointment to rage.

3. Fantasia: search on newsgroup

rec.music.classical.recordings

and kw Fantasia / recording technology ; we had a little thread going about Fantasia's many (wretched) permutations.

[Patrick]

You can still buy new. The Pioneer "universal" machine. No, NOT dvd-a and sacd. CD-DVD-LD!!! I think the model designation is DVL-919.
Available from Audio Advisor, for one. Cheaper elsewhere, try a price search. Maybe even your local chain electronics megastore. Pat.

[lil.fred]

Wow! That's unexpected!

Thanks for your advice, too, Ed, since I may still buy used.

[Patrick]

Follow-up. The 919 is still widely available AND it will do ac-3 dolby digital LD's, a feature on only the very expensive (even used) Elite players?
You can get this machine NEW for under $500 to $600 a number of places and reconditioned or "B-stock" units for under $400, E-bay and elsewhere.

[ezio gallino]

for laserdisc hw (and sw) info's go to http://www.mindspring.com/~jzyber/laserdiscforever.htm
think it's best.
ezio

[Ed Bishop]

Originally posted by Patrick
Follow-up. The 919 is still widely available AND it will do ac-3 dolby digital LD's, a feature on only the very expensive (even used) Elite players?
You can get this machine NEW for under $500 to $600 a number of places and reconditioned or "B-stock" units for under $400, E-bay and elsewhere.

Good point about the AC-3, Patrick. Since DD came to laser late in the game, while there may be limited titles, if you can get a new or used player with that option for a good price, it's a smart way to go. There were decoders you could buy to augment older players, but that's a pain when you can get it built-in.

ED :cool:

[Gardo]

Originally posted by Patrick
Follow-up. The 919 is still widely available AND it will do ac-3 dolby digital LD's, a feature on only the very expensive (even used) Elite players?
You can get this machine NEW for under $500 to $600 a number of places and reconditioned or "B-stock" units for under $400, E-bay and elsewhere.

I've had some experience with the 919; it seems like a good machine. It has component out; no progressive scan, though, if that matters to you for DVD. There's an Elite version of this machine, or was; it probably has slightly better video.

The Pioneer Elite 79 (I think that's the model) has the best video I've seen on an LD player. It's LD/CD only. I'm still very pleased with my Pioneer 703. My Pioneer 604 has AC-3 out but the color isn't so good as the 703's. My old faithful 1070 still chugs along in my office, though it can't track slightly warped CAV discs worth a toot.

By the way, on the subject of AC-3: even if your LD machine has built-in AC-3 out, be aware that only a few receivers have a built-in decoder, which you'll need for DD playback. Pioneer used to sell an outboard decoder, but it was pricey IIRC.

FWIW, I loved LD when it was the only game in town. Still have 200 or so discs. But the video quality can't compare with DVD. OTOH, stereo 16-bit PCM digital beats the stereo downmixes on DVDs, most of the time.

[Claviusb]

It's very easy to locate a loaded Pioneer player (ie: one that plays both sides) that's used for $250-- with some discs thrown in!

[ezio gallino]

Take care a consideration. There are a lot of Pioneer ld-v8000's (discarded by army and government stocks) very bell built (ac-3 must be added however) that work fine (just laser, no cd, were sold $2500 some year ago, 30lb stuff!,) at $50 on ebay. great deal.
In example sales@bigkey.com.

ezio

[David R. Modny]

Another option that you might consider is trying to hunt down one of the used Pioneer industrial machines, if you don't want to lay out a lot of cash. I picked up a 4400 in mint condition for 50 bucks. It's built like a freaking tank -- in fact, I believe it's a popular machine with the military, school systems, etc. Of course, I then had to track down a compatible remote for it. Not a big problem though -- found one on Ebay for 15 bucks.

[jeff e.]

I second the recommendation of the Pioneer LD-V8000. I got one for $40 a few years ago, and it is nothing short of amazing. Built like a tank, with a gorgeous picture. The only downside is that it's tough to find a remote because they were usually sold without one. You can use just about any Pioneer LD player or universal remote with it, but you can't move to a specific chapter unless you have the OEM remote. It is also much slower to load than most commercial LD players, but is definitely worth the wait.

As far as commercial models go, a perennial favorite is the Pioneer CLD-D704, a powerhouse that has just about every feature you could ask for other than AC-3. Be aware that Mitsubishi sold this machine with their name on it and changed the model number to M-V7057. It's tougher to find but usually sells for much less than a 704 because few people know what it is. (It's what I'm using in my main system and I love it.)

[Gardo]

Originally posted by jeff e.
I second the recommendation of the Pioneer LD-V8000. I got one for $40 a few years ago, and it is nothing short of amazing. Built like a tank, with a gorgeous picture. The only downside is that it's tough to find a remote because they were usually sold without one. You can use just about any Pioneer LD player or universal remote with it, but you can't move to a specific chapter unless you have the OEM remote. It is also much slower to load than most commercial LD players, but is definitely worth the wait.

As far as commercial models go, a perennial favorite is the Pioneer CLD-D704, a powerhouse that has just about every feature you could ask for other than AC-3. Be aware that Mitsubishi sold this machine with their name on it and changed the model number to M-V7057. It's tougher to find but usually sells for much less than a 704 because few people know what it is. (It's what I'm using in my main system and I love it.)

I knew my 703 didn't have AC-3 out, but I thought Pioneer added it for the 704. Interesting.

IIRC, the 700-series Pioneers were the top of their non-Elite line.

[jeff e.]

Originally posted by Gardo


I knew my 703 didn't have AC-3 out, but I thought Pioneer added it for the 704. Interesting.

IIRC, the 700-series Pioneers were the top of their non-Elite line.

Wait a minute, the 704 does have AC-3 out. I don't know what I was thinking. I forgot that there was no such beast as a LD player with a built-in RF demodulator. Since I have mine hooked up to a Yamaha APD-1, I was erroneously thinking that it did not have AC-3. My mistake.
;)

[lil.fred]

But the video quality can't compare with DVD.

Is that generally agreed?

[Gardo]

Originally posted by lil.fred


Is that generally agreed?

A wee clarification, as we Scots say. Generally speaking, DVD beats LD for video quality. There are very well-mastered LDs that are very close to DVD on smaller screens, where video noise and color problems aren't so readily detectable. And of course a well-mastered LD can best a poorly-mastered (transferred, I should say) DVD. But in general, the MPEG-2 artifacts one can spot in DVDs are far less objectionable than the analog NTSC artifacts on LD, at least in my experience and among most of the videophiles I know.

Sound is another matter!

[danstone]

For any laserdisc information (including player suggestions, picture quality comparisons, etc.) I would highly suggest visiting www.hometheaterforum.com and doing a search by user name for posts by Rachael B who is extremely knowledgeable about laserdisc matters. Here's a good post to start with as an example: http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htforum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=85375&highlight=rachael

[John Moschella]

I think you should try to get an Elite LD player if you can and if your really set on getting into LD.

FWIW I have two LD players and never had a problem with build quality or anything going wrong. My Marantz is built on a Pioneer chassis and is very reliable.

On video quality. So much depends on the size of the display and the particular discs. On my 32" TV the good LDs are perfectly fine, but in my home theater with a 7.5 foot wide screen, I really can't watch a laser disc. On a display that size there is a huge difference. The very best laserdiscs can only come close to a really bad DVD, and I mean really bad. So for the most part any DVD will easily beat a LD for video quality with comparibly priced players.

On audio quality. Some LDs have awesome sound, the Appocalypse Now LD comes to mind, and in the early days of DVD the SQ on them was nothing to write home about. But the SQ on DVDs, particularly newer films that are multi-channel from the get go, have gotten so much better that the line is blurred. This is on aspect where the LD player has a big impact on the sound because your using its analog output stage. Some of the spacial information on todays modern DVDs is nothing short of stunning and makes you forget all about the compression which rears its head during musical sequences and concert films.

John

[romanotrax]

Originally posted by lil.fred
So, I know it seems a little late, but I'm wanting to get a LaserDisc player ... second hand, obviously ... would any members like to advise me before I plunge into eBay?

Thanks! (In case you're wondering what pushed me over the edge, it was the Fantasia DVD release and the Hard Day's Night DVD release, too ... as well.)

If you email me privately I may be able to help you out with a nice player and some discs CHEAP!!

[IceNine]

Originally posted by Patrick
You can still buy new. The Pioneer "universal" machine. No, NOT dvd-a and sacd. CD-DVD-LD!!! I think the model designation is DVL-919.
Available from Audio Advisor, for one. Cheaper elsewhere, try a price search. Maybe even your local chain electronics megastore. Pat.

I own one of these and it works just fine. Or, at least, it will until I need a progressive scan DVD player. I had to keep my old laserdisc collection "working", so this was a great choice.

Highly recommended.

[lsupro]

Originally posted by lil.fred
Though a laser reads the disc, LD is (was) an analog format.


Really? I am not trying to be a wise *** here. I am legitimately curious as to how a laser reading 1's and 0's is analog?

Seriously... did the disc not contain 1's and 0's?

I always thought it did...

[BradOlson]

Yes, the Laserdisc is an analog format.

[proufo]

Short of a Japanese expensive model, it seems the best LD player is the Pioneer CLD 704.

Check the DVD/LD area at AVSforums.com for more info.

Available once in a while at ebay and goes for good money.

I have a cheap Pioneer and will replace it with another when the time comes, used from ebay. I don't think it is worthy to invest much money in that format but do want to be able to use my existing software.