Q for Steve or others: McIntosh 240 stereo amp

[Ronflugelguy]

I am looking into buying a Mac 240 or 275. I PSB Stratus Gold i speakers, and right now a Parasound HCA 1500A power amp. I have been talking to the local dealer(40 mi away) in Stockton Ca. They are an authorized MAC dealer. The tech says he has a mint 240 that he hasn't gone through yet , that was one owner, late sixties/early seventies vintage. He won't be getting to it until after the first of the year. I asked him how much, and he said probably around $1800, he said from his preliminary inspection,that it was not going to require hardly any work. He also said that I could Biamp withe the parasound on the bottom and the MAC on top and it would most likely sound good and work well. Is this price sound reasonable? What questions should be asking? The gentleman sounded pretty knowledgableand also told me I could have a tryout period to see how system matching works. So, what do you think?

[Gary]

A Mac 240 (40 watts) has a great mid range because it utilizes GE 6L6 tubes. A 275 (75 watts), while more powerful, does not.

It seems to be a fair price if it's unmodified and mint.

[Ronflugelguy]

Gary, the tech told me if I biamp that the 240 has enough power for the mids and highs, It does sound like a better match for what I'm trying to accomplish.

[Gary]

You should confirm that the 240 has it's own gain controls (volume). Mine does. It would be great for you as you could then adjust the volume to your taste!

Mine also has a three way switch - mono, stereo and twin amp. The twin amp has a bit more volume than stereo. There are gain controls for all three settings. Something to remember.

And you can change tubes to tailor the sound to your liking - or to match the Parasound closer. For example, RCA Black Plates have deeper lows and higher highs but loose midrange.

I have no idea how your Parasound would match up with the Mac. But the trial period sounds like a good idea.

And if the Mac sounds better than the Parasound, you may be looking for another Mac amp.... :D

[Ronflugelguy]

Gary, what kind of speaker cabling and connecters do you use?

[Gary]

Kimber Silver Streaks (interconnects) and Kimber 8TC (speaker cables). I find the Silver Streaks speeds up the 'slow' tube sound.

Come to think of it, this may become an issue for you - fast solid state vs. 'slow' tubes. You may have to play a lot with interconnets..... maybe.

[Ronflugelguy]

Do you use small spade lugs, or bare wire?

[Gary]

Bare wire on the amp. I found that even small spades were too large!

Bananas on the speaker side.

But right now I have double bananas - on the amp and speaker side. I found banana recepticals (know what I mean?) and I screwed then into the amp.

Why?

I bought 37 feet of Kimber TC8's per side and am reluctant to cut them before I arrive at my final room configuration. This means that I am not really sure of how much I need from the amp to the speakers. Yet. :D

[Dean De Furia]

Gary, Where can I pick up the bananas that you screwed onto the amp?

[Gary]

That store downtown, Dean. On Queen Street West.... Past CITY TV.... with the Gorilla in front of it. Name escapes me...

Uhhh well it *could* be a bit out of your way....

I don't know. Radio Shack? Nope. An electronics supply store of some sort.

Sckott, do you know?

If worse comes to worse, PM me and I'll look around for ya. They are cheap.

I'll look at my spare sets and let you know.

[Gary]

Active Surplus, Queen St W. Should be about $5.00 a set (of two). Lets call these "plug recepticles" since I don't know the real name of them.

These simple items have a banana plug receptical at one end and a screw on the other. They are black and red (well.... mine are!).

Actually I think they might be at Radio Shack. I remember seeing them somewhere else but I forgot where. Sorry.

This is how it works. Unscrew a speaker "cable" screw (actually they were simple wires in those days) from the MC240. Don't loose it! Find a nut that fits it. Buy eight of those nuts. Go to Radio Shack (or somewhere). Buy two sets of "banana plug recepticles". They are joined, two to a set, so you are really buying four "plug recepticales". Ensure that the nut(s) fit on the "plug receptical" screw. This means that the "plug recepticle" screw will fit into the amp where the original screw was!

Take the two sets apart so you have four plug recepticles. This will mean that the "plug recepticle" screw is extra long. Break it off about half way as it is so long that it grounds to the chasis. This is bad! But leave enough room for two nuts (that sounds bad!;) ) and for the remaining end of the "plug recepticle" screw to fit into the chassis.

You'll have to play with the nuts / "plug recepticles" so it fits in the amp properly (there are raised plastic dividers where the speaker cables are attached to the amp). You don't necessarily have to use two nuts per "plug recepticle".

Please note that this amp has four speaker connectors for each side (R & L). They are common, four, eight and 16 ohms. That's why you have to take the " plug recepticles" apart.

Did any of this make sense?

Good luck and good night! The WAF is deteriorating rapidly. She says that her picture should go up as wallpaper so I will remember what she looks like.

Ulp! :eek:

[Jeffrey]

Hi,

I also have a '67 McIntosh 240. I paid $2500 for mine about 8 months ago but I've never seen one in better condition and I got an extended advice/info. agreement from a very knowledgeable chap. So $1800 in mint condition sounds fair to me.

The 240 has awesome mid's. The lows and highs are not as nice. Bi-amping the lows makes sense but I wonder about mixing newer SS and vintage tubes from a speed perspective. Dunno.... but a free demo takes care of that issue. :)

While the 240 can go solo, I would be thinking about matching it w/ a preamp. Like Gary, I matched mine up w/ a vintage McIntosh pre and have been relatively happy, especially w/ the mids. I scored a '60 C-20 though most people recommend the C-22.

I think you will be happy w/ the 240 and can probably get your $1800 back on Ebay for a truly mint 240 if you are not. How often does that happen in the world of audio? :)

-Jeffrey

[Ronflugelguy]

Originally posted by Jeffrey
Hi,

I also have a '67 McIntosh 240. I paid $2500 for mine about 8 months ago but I've never seen one in better condition and I got an extended advice/info. agreement from a very knowledgeable chap. So $1800 in mint condition sounds fair to me.

The 240 has awesome mid's. The lows and highs are not as nice. Bi-amping the lows makes sense but I wonder about mixing newer SS and vintage tubes from a speed perspective. Dunno.... but a free demo takes care of that issue. :)

While the 240 can go solo, I would be thinking about matching it w/ a preamp. Like Gary, I matched mine up w/ a vintage McIntosh pre and have been relatively happy, especially w/ the mids. I scored a '60 C-20 though most people recommend the C-22.

I think you will be happy w/ the 240 and can probably get your $1800 back on Ebay for a truly mint 240 if you are not. How often does that happen in the world of audio? :)

-Jeffrey Jeffery, what can I expect in the quality of the highs?

[Jeffrey]

Originally posted by Ronflugelguy
Jeffery, what can I expect in the quality of the highs?

Hi Ron,

The highs rolloff a little quicker than I prefer but overall are pretty good. Most of my 240 concerns are in the lows...... they are loose, boomy, and slow.

Please note, I'm telling ya the good, the bad and the ugly. :) Full & fair disclosure doncha know. Overall, it's a nice tube amp and worthy of $1800 in mint condition. The mid's are amazingly life-like.

-Jeffrey

[Ronflugelguy]

Maybe that's why the salesman/tech suggested the ss /tube combo to me? I'm pretty happy with the bass i have, but I want to hear the breath of life!

[Steve Hoffman]

That bass slowness (and anything else) can be fixed on the 240 if you want it modded. The bass will get fast, the highs will get neutral but the mids will stay glorious. Of course, your amp worth two grand will now be worth 500 dollars to a collector if you try and resell. Sigh.

I only use my Mac stuff with vintage speakers that need the original Mac sound. I really miss my old 240. It only had about 10 hours on it (since 1967) if that! It worked well with my Tannoy speakers in that, since the speakers start rolling off around 12k, the amp was perfect in the top end range for it. Added just the right amount of lifelikeness up there.

I'm using my Marantz 8B with the Tannoys right now, and it is a much more accurate amp, but that McIntosh midrange magic is missing totally.....:(

[Gary]

I've seen a pair of Tannoy's recently, Steve.

Sorry - asking again and I should hunt thru the archives or something - but which model of Tannoy's do you have? Do you recommend them for every day listening?

[Jeffrey]

Hey Gary,

Word is..... Tannoy's perform very poorly in cold climates. They prefer sub-tropical climates such as Southern California, Florida & Texas. Where did ya see these Tannoy's?

-Jeffrey :)

[Gary]

While I was Nauga hunting, Jeffrey. :D In cold climates!

Don't tell me you need Tannoys!?!

My problem is that I have soooo many speakers, I really have to do something with the old ones in storage before I buy more!

[Steve Hoffman]

Originally posted by Gary
I've seen a pair of Tannoy's recently, Steve.

Sorry - asking again and I should hunt thru the archives or something - but which model of Tannoy's do you have? Do you recommend them for every day listening?

I have a pair of Lancasters.

15" dual concentric Gold's inside. My bud Robert found them for me in a thrift store for under a hundred.

See this page as to why they are so groovy:

http://www.users.bigpond.com/tunnelgap/Tannoy/Tannoy1.html

I love 'em, but they end around 12,000 cycles though. Under that, smooth bliss, with total midrange magic and strong, full bass down to DC....

Sixth picture down on this link:

http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=471

[Gary]

Thank you, Steve!

[jdw]

Originally posted by Jeffrey

Most of my 240 concerns are in the lows...... they are loose, boomy, and slow.


I'm looking for some literature (www or elsewhere) describing and explaining this characteristic of tube equipment. Do tube pre's exhibit this as well, or just amplifiers? Is there a good FAQ anywhere? Thanks very much...

John
Vancouver, BC

[Gary]

I believe these concerns are all in relation to '60's era McIntosh MC240 and (I believe) MC30 tube amplifiers. Not '60's pre amps. I've tried a SS amp with my '60's era McIntosh MX110. But I lost midrange magic so back to the MC240 I went! I love my Mac equipment!

Modern tube equipment would not have problems in the lows or anywhere. Carey, for instance, makes audiophile tube equipment. I've heard some pretty great stuff! There are a few places in Vancouver that sell tube equipment.

As for a FAQ source, sorry, I can't help you.

[jdw]

Originally posted by Gary
I believe these concerns are all in relation to '60's era McIntosh MC240 and (I believe) MC30 tube amplifiers. Not '60's pre amps.
--clip--
As for a FAQ source, sorry, I can't help you.

Thanks, Gary. I've seen others describe the "slow-ness" of vintage tube amps in general and not regarding McIntosh in particular. I'll have to do some more reading.

I'm just starting to research in this area (ie. tubes) in hopes of upgrading from SS in the next year or so. Any info or advice you can offer would be appreciated. Contact me off list if you've got the time (it's Christmas and it's busy, I know...).

Thanks

John
Vancouver, BC
walasko@canuck.com

[Gary]

JDW, I'm not really a tube expert and I am limited in my budget so I've only evaluated three vintage tube amps. I have not done any serious evaluation of modern tube equipment - why test drive a BMW when you have to settle for a Buick? ;)

You should check out www.audioasylum.com for tube comments.

Have fun!