DCC Zombies query...

[Vivaldinization]

As I didn't really get an answer to this before, I must repeat my desperate inquiry..^_^:

a) What mix of Don't Cry for Me is this? It doesn't correspond to either of the two Zombie Heaven mixes, nor the "usual" stereo mix...it also sounds like a semi-undubbed version...?

b) Steve, you're amazing; you managed to unearth another mix of Imagine the Swan. Yours has all of the backing vocals intact, and also has the organ mixed up during the intro...I've never ehard this version before, and it isn't the one passed off as the "real" mix on the boxed-set. What's the story with it?

c) This set sounds GOOD. But you know that! One of the best parts of Zombie collecting is figuring out where the 400 compilations on 'em each steal their mastering from, but nobody seems to have pillaged your set (although a few stereo I Can'T Make Up My Minds probably come from this).

-D

[David R. Modny]

David - You might have missed my reply the last time this thread went around, but I can answer your questions.

The version of "Don't Cry For Me" on the DCC disc is simply the original mono mix (w/overdubs) that was released as the b side to "If It Don't Work Out", on Date, in 1969. Also, Steve's version of "Imagine the Swan" isn't really *that* rare - as it's actually the "correct" and FIRST official stereo release that ever appeared...on the 1973 "Time of the Zombies" two LP vinyl comp. Thus, there have actually been three stereo mixes of this song released over the course of time. : )

[Sckott]

I had an old Castle Communicaions Zombies that had the count-in (three..FOUR!) for "She's Not There". Seemed to be tagged on, because the sound comes out of some hiss, and then it's gone.

I don't have the DCC Zombies though, so I'm not sure if there's any exclusivity to this version.

[Vivaldinization]

You're right, David...I didn't see your response last time. Thanks! In that case, then, this is the easiest place to find it.

I'm trying to make a Zombies discography, which is an absolute nightmare. And yes, I own Greg Russo's book, but he makes several large errors, and I figure it's easy enough to fix myself.

What I *want* to do at some point: get scans of every Zombies CD release ever, and include which ones're worthwhile.

The problem is, though, that there are SO many %$#%$# CD issues that it's VERY hard to tell which are best...for example, Meet the Zombies sounds great, but does it sound better, worse, or the same than Repertoire's version of the material? Naturally, most of these discs feature "stolen" audio, so at least Steve's disc I know is a unique remastering (of course, someone probably stole from HIM, too).

Regarding the Imagine the Swan query...good point! I had forgotten to check Time of the Zombies (also, I had assumed that since it is an oddity in featuring the ZH mixes of everything, including Smokey Day, that its version of Imagine the Swan probably corresponded with ZHs).

BTW, does anybody here own hte NEW Repertoire releases of Begin HEre and Odessey? I want to know if they've "upgraded" to Zombie Heaven versions, or whether they still have the old mixes, etc.

-D

[David R. Modny]

David - You're right about Russo's book being sprinkled with a few errors (e.g. getting the two "Goin' Out Of My Head" mixes backwards while crediting them, failing to differentiate the additional stereo mix of "Imagine the Swan", saying that the mono "Don't Cry For Me" hasn't appeared on CD in the text while later properly crediting it in the discography, etc...) but I think it's still an incredible undertaking and a fabulous book...a true labor of love by a fan. : )

Another one we forgot to mention the DCC disc being great for is a simple way to find the 1st, "Early Days" stereo mix of "Kind of Girl". A lot of other comps seem to be using the other stereo mix. Speaking of "Early Days", I just hocked this on Ebay a couple of weeks ago!
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1492826116


Also, Scott...the false start/studio chatter/count-in versions of the songs started appearing in the mid-70's on vinyl. The "Rock Roots" UK comp had those versions of "She's Not There", "You Make Me Feel Good", and "I Can't Make Up My Mind" for the first time.

[Pat]

Re; Zombies False Start/Chatter...

Also, look for Gigantes Del Pop Vol 47. This was a really nice vinyl pressing of the Decca recordings put out a while back! They were made in Spain, but were plentiful at one time in the good ole US of A! They also had a thin, laminated cover.

[Vivaldinization]

David - You're right about Russo's book being sprinkled with a few errors (e.g. getting
the two "Goin' Out Of My Head" mixes ackwards while crediting them, failing to differentiate the additional stereo mix of "Imagine the Swan", saying that the mono
"Don't Cry For Me" hasn't appeared on CD in the text while later properly crediting it in
the discography, etc...) but I think it's still an incredible undertaking and a fabulous book...a true labor of love by a fan. : )

IIRC, Alec Palao had some issues with the book, feeling that Russo cribbed some stuff from Zombie Heaven and didn't properly credit 'im. That aside, I do love Russo's book.

And hey, *I* didn't notice the Imagine the Swan difference until I picked up the DCC Greatest Hits (my excuse...I've never listened much to Time of the Zombies, as I got into the Zombies post-Zombie Heaven, and only after I got into this board did I realize that Steve's comp probably *had* some material that wasn't on other comps).

That said, he also misses the (rather large) difference between the two Leave Me Be's, the two Smokey Days, et cetera, and many of his "differences" seem kinda arbitratry (this has more echo than that, et cetera). I think a better differenceography could be put together fairly easily.

I'm also endlessly interested (and I don't want to bother Alec Palao more...I think he's tee-ed off at me..:-( ) in where these differences *come* from; in essense, how many different actual masterings are there, and why does each have those inherent differences? For example, I'm pretty sure See For Miles originated the mastering of their Singles As and Bs comp (no reason why they shouldn't have...it was on vinyl first), which explains the "dirty" She's Not There and other things; likewise, Steve originated his disc, and Big Beat (obviously) originated their stuff. Yet most OTHER material is endlessly stolen and/or recycled (by the way, in an era before CDRs, how DID labels "steal" audio from other CDs? Did htey just copy onto DAT, and then reproduce, or were there some prehistoric version of CDDA going on? I've always wondered...). For example, the clean stereo She's Not There...there're at least two different masterings (I'm pretty sure), and I have NO idea where they come from. Repertoire's early discs might be partly original (Smokey Day, which I don't think had popped up on CD before that) and partly cribbed. The LINE Zombies Collection is a similar matter. For that matter, where did those awful left-channel-muffled stereo mixes come from? (Summertime, one of the Kind of Girl mixes, and a few others)

And that doesn't even get into the bizarre RIP issue...essentially, until Zombie Heaven and post Time of the Zombies, most comps used mixes that were markedly different from the ones that showed up on Zombie Heaven:

Don't Cry for Me (Steve's mix, which Dave explained as the single mix, but then the alternate stereo mix, probably originated on Meet the Zombies)
Smokey Day (one of the rarer ones...the very dry alternate stereo mix)
Walking on the Sun (mono, I think?)
She Loves the Way (mono, crowd noise is different)
Girl, Help Me (two mixes...the wandering guitar version, and then the mono version...both more similar than the Zombie Heaven mix)

Only I Could Spend the Day seems markedly consistent...odd, no?


And yeah, Zombie Collecting *is* actually this complicated...but at least the true mix variations are relatively slight (i.e. nowhere near as complex as the Small Faces catelogue...we only have ONE alternate mix that seems unavailible on CD).

-D

[David R. Modny]

David - I think the whole Zombies mixing/mastering issue is pretty bizarre when you look at it. There is some truly weird stuff going on.

One that came to mind today is that there are two subtly different stereo mixes of "She Does Everything For Me" that have been released. I'll use the vinyl releases as examples. The "Early Days" version and the See For Miles "A's and B's" set have Rod's backing voice on the "and now I know" line during the chorus mixed up louder. On "World of the Zombies" (and on the Line CD) it's not like this. Being that "World" and "Early Days" were both released at approximately the same time and, correspondingly, were the UK and US stereo debuts of most tracks - one has to wonder how *many* new stereo mix variations Rod and Chris actually made in 1969.

FWIW, my take on some of the stuff is this. I believe that most, if not all, of the "RIP" stuff was probably given a full mono and stereo mix in '68-'69. I also believe that when "Time of the Zombies" came out in '73 that Rod and Chris probably remixed *some* of the needed "RIP" tracks at that time. This could explain the mono and *different* stereo mixes that have seen the light of day over the years. Also, some of the stereo "RIP" stuff that has been released on CD (i.e. the Line mixes) sounds, to my ears anyway, like work in progress (68-69?) mixes...thus giving us our third mix as in the case of "Imagine the Swan". Wrong tapes being sent out during the "Meet the Zombies", "Line", etc, CD era...who knows??

As far as some of the weird **** like the screwed up left channel mix of "Summertime", it almost sounds like some of that stuff was just improperly transferred...maybe using decks with incompatible heads? It's also weird to hear, across the many reissues, just how different the processing, eq, tape alignment, compression is on many of the tracks ("I Can't Make Up My Mind" on the Teichiku set comes to mind). One of the "benefits" I suppose of an endless sea of low-rent reissues...lol!

[Steve Hoffman]

.... "One of the "benefits" I suppose of an endless sea of low-rent reissues...lol!"

Which, of course, happened because Decca lost control of the tapes. Man, you wouldn't believe the crap I had to wade through until I found the "correct" tapes. At least the versions that I wanted to use.

I still have three mix variations on "Tell Her No", and some songs have many others. I guess there were some "US ONLY" mono mixes, plus all of the wacky stereo stuff that came later. Just crazy piles of tapes and copies of tapes, and copies of copies... Urggh!

But, I did find what I was looking for. John Atkinson helped me out a bit when he was at Universal, and of course Carole in England was the biggest help; finally unearthing the real deal for me...

[Pat]

Steve,

When DCC "gears up" again, I'm sure the loyal masses would love to see a continuation of material from The Zombies...one of the most under-rated British Invasion groups of all time! I know that much has been released but, no doubt, this material could be presented MUCH better! :D

[David R. Modny]

I have to agree Pat. The Zombies are truly something special. My first exposure to the band was a Decca "Best of" cut-out cassette at age 17 in 1982...been hooked ever since! Hell, I'm probably one of the few souls out there who actually digs their "Return of the Zombies"/"New World" reunion stuff from 89/90.

One question I have for any of the other Zombies collectors out there. Does anyone own an original stereo pressing of the "Bunny Lake Is Missing" soundtrack and, if so, are the 3 Zombies tracks indeed TRUE stereo? More specifically...is the soundtrack alt. version of "Remember You" in true stereo there? Inquiring minds need to know!

[Vivaldinization]

One that came to mind today is that there are two subtly different stereo mixes of "She Does
Everything For Me" that have been released. I'll use the vinyl releases as examples. The "Early
Days" version and the See For Miles "A's and B's" set have Rod's backing voice on the "and now
I know" line during the chorus mixed up louder. On "World of the Zombies" (and on the Line CD)
it's not like this. Being that "World" and "Early Days" were both released at approximately the
same time and, correspondingly, were the UK and US stereo debuts of most tracks - one has
to wonder how *many* new stereo mix variations Rod and Chris actually made in 1969.


Interesting...never noticed that! I'll have to go back and listen.


Isn't this awful for a band that only came out with two albums?;-)

Steve wrote:

Which, of course, happened because Decca lost control of the tapes. Man, you wouldn't
believe the crap I had to wade through until I found the "correct" tapes. At least the versions
that I wanted to use.


Steve, trust me, I believe the crap you went through...and I thank you for putting the RIGHT version of Imagine the Swan on disc.

Someone else wrote:

When DCC "gears up" again, I'm sure the loyal masses would love to see a continuation of
material from The Zombies...one of the most under-rated British Invasion groups of all time! I
know that much has been released but, no doubt, this material could be presented MUCH
better!


I don't think this is quite true...unless DCC plans a multi-disc boxed-set containing EVERYTHING (i.e. Zombie Heaven x 2), it would just muddy the issue further. Most of it sounds pretty good as is, as well.

-D