The MFSL Sinatra box set

[John Moschella]

Through the years I've collected a few Sinatra LPs. From a sound quality perspective some of the Reprise releases I have are decent and I have a few Capitol releases which sound thin and are pretty lacking in any dynamic range. They are old records but probably not original releases. I recently picked up a very mint MFSL Nice'n'Easy and was blown away by the sound quality. Way better than any of the old Sinatra stuff I have. So my question: Is the box set up to the quality of Nice'n'Easy?

John

[ArneW]

Yes it is - at least regarding the Stereo LPs. If you do a search on the archives, there are two or three threads in this forum which are dealing specifically with Sinatra's Capitol Years and the sonic differences between the various LP and CD releases.

Arne

[Roscoe]

I thought I remember reading in one of those old Sinatra threads that MFSL used the wrong tapes.

Something to the effect that Capitol added reverb for Sinatra repressings in the 60s, and that MFSL used these reverbed tapes instead of the original masters with the "dry" vocals.

I have been avoiding the MFSLs for this reason, although my frustration with trying to find clean copies of the original Capitol gray labels is leading me to reconsider.

So, are there major sonic differences between the MFSLs and the Capitol gray labels?

[ArneW]

Martin Melucci has discussed the differences between the various LP and CD pressings in depth. Here's the thread (http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2776).

BTW, the wrong masters were only used on the MFSL Mono LPs, as Steve explained two years ago on the old forum - you may find the thread in the archives section of www.stevehoffman.tv.

Arne

[-Ben]

Originally posted by Roscoe
So, are there major sonic differences between the MFSLs and the Capitol gray labels?

I'll give you MY advise.

I have a few Capitol gray labels.
They are VERY nice. I continue to buy them because they can be found cheap. If I see a clean $3 copy.... It's in the cart. I have bought 3 copies of Songs for Swinging Lovers and finally found one that is nice and clean and I can really enjoy.
However, My MFSL box is not for sale.
In other words, just because you found a clean yellow/black Parlophone mono Sgt. Pepper's doesn't mean you have sell the Stereo MFSL.

Summary: Get the box and keep looking for gray labels.

That is what I'm doing.

BC

[sgraham]

I have the MFSL Nice and Easy LP and I'm not that thrilled with it. It sounds souped up and a bit forced.

[Loud Listener]

The MFSL Set in my opinion is the best available for several reasons:

1. It is a set. 16 of his best albums.
2. The sound is really good on all of them. Others may have opinions about the mastering (EQ) and the slight echo on the monos, but they still sound gorgeous to me.
3. These are the quietest vinyl pressings of these LPs you will ever find. Period.

I say go for it! :D

[Matt]

If you want the original stereo mixes, you should be alright with those on the MFSL box set. However, the absolute definitive Sinatra Capitol, IMO, is, for the most part, the mono first pressings. As mentioned, these are the grey label Lp's, and they are inexpensive since they were very popular and a ton of them are floating around. A good, clean copy of one may be priced around $10 to 15, maybe even less.

The mono versions were engineered better; I think all of them were mixed live to tape. The original stereo mixes don't have much magic to them, IMO. They usually had extra EQ, compression, reverb, etc. that wasn't needed. If we're lucky, someone like Steve will get a crack at the original three-tracks and make some great sounding stereo mixes without the unwanted extra noodling. Even then, though the mono's may still be the way to go; I think they were recorded better than the three-tracks.

MMM also mentioned other issues with the earliest albums, mainly with dubs that have been used as the master for various pressings/formats. I think the original 10" vinyl is the way to go with those.

[feinstein]

I found the MSFL "Nice and Easy" to be the worst of the bunch. I think I may have a bad pressing though (mine came from the Sinatra box set) since the Frank's voice sounds harsh and overloaded. The album is still great though.

[MMM]

In my experience from the few Capitol 10" LP's have, even though they come from "good" tapes, they don't sound very good. I got the impression that they kind of "dumbed down" the sound quite a bit for the probably bad turntables people were probably going to play them on at the time of release. This is for "Songs For Young Lovers" and "Swing Easy" since I've never heard the 2 record 10" version of "In the Wee Small Hours".

For "Songs For Young Lovers" and "Swing Easy" look for the version Capitol combined both of these 10" albums onto 1 12" LP - Capitol W-587. There's also the JPN issue from the early 80's of this title that is nice - Capitol ECJ-50065.

[hankbe46]

I know that the wrong mono master tapes were used in assembling this box set, and i've read here that the correct stereo tapes were used. My question relates to whcih stereo tapes were utilized. Was it the three track session masters themselves or the two track album masters. I suspect it was the latter because of the fact that on the ALL THE WAY lp two songs were in duophonic rather than mono.I'd like to hear from MMM on this one.

Hank Bottieri

[Angel]

I think you answered your own question about the stereo versions.

[MMM]

Angel is right, as are your suspicions Hank - older two track stereo mixes were used on the stereo albums, and not remixes from the three-tracks. I don't own this box, but I have heard over half of the records in it. I do own a MoFi test pressing of Sinatra's Swingin' Session though, plus a stock copy of A Jolly Christmas, which for whatever reason was not included in the MoFi Sinatra box set.

One thing I don't remember - Frank Sinatra Sings For Only the Lonely in that box - I know it has all 12 songs on it, and I think "It's a Lonesome Old Town" and "Spring Is Here" are in stereo on the MoFi LP (these two songs were left off the Capitol stereo LP's of Only the Lonely due to the time restrictions iof the early days of cutting stereo LP's - and even today the length of this album is kinda "pushing it" for one stereo LP - appx. 53 min, though I bet Steve and Kevin could do it in their sleep :)). The thing is, I haven't listened to the MoFi LP of this album in years and I can't remember if it has the original stereo mix or not - I think it does, but I can't remember what was the deal with those two particular songs, mix wise. I'll have to listen to a friend's copy again to check.

[hankbe46]

Thanks for the info, Angel and Martin. I don't know if you would agree, but I still like the MFSL box set better than any other Sinatra Capitol stuff i've heard on cd. The pressings are cd quiet, and the sound blows away any remasters since, IMHO.

Hank Bottieri

[sgraham]

The only MFSL Sinatra I have is Nice 'n Easy. It sounds - well MoFi. Souped up. Sort of spectacular, but not quite right. I don't have a Capitol of this LP to compare, but some of the other Sinatra Capitol LPs sound better to me.

However the CD's that I've heard were butchered so I'm not surprised the MoFi sounds better.

[hankbe46]

I just listened to the MOFI Only the Lonely lp and Spring is Here and Lonesome Old Town are in stereo and the liner notes say it is the first time release of those tracks in stereo. However, I don't have an original Capitol stereo version to compare it to. I have a mono original but that is completely different sounding as you know.

Hank Bottieri

[aoxomoxoa]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rt=nc&nma=true&item=260702725044&si=3JllGVpkjF3ahHR%252Fq2%252F18CQNKUI%2 53D&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWNX%3AIT


:goodie:

$238 plus shipping. Do you think I did well? I am happy. Have been looking for this forever.

Any thoughts on this set from those who already own it?

[MilesSmiles]

Congrats!

[aoxomoxoa]

I am stoked but i have to stop buying stuff! First the Dylan mono set, then the stones 60's vinyl box, and now this!

[paulmock]

I am stoked but i have to stop buying stuff! First the Dylan mono set, then the stones 60's vinyl box, and now this!

I know. I got back into vinyl after over 20 years last January and looking at what I've spent on vinyl in 2010 is just mind-blowing!!! I need to make a concerted effort to slow WAY down as 2011 begins!!!

CONGRATS on the MFSL box. Nice price. I hope it is near mint as advertised.
Amoeba Hollywood has 2 they are trying to sell for $500 each!:eek:

[aoxomoxoa]

This guys description sounds convincing. He has a good feedback record too.

Has anyone used the GEODISC. How does that work?

[OldCoder]

Congratulations!

You beat the price I paid for mine by over $100, and I felt I stole mine!

You are in for some of the finest (and some of the most frustrating) Sinatra listening you'll ever enjoy!

Good luck on it arriving in great shape, its a wonderful piece for your collection.

[aoxomoxoa]

Congratulations!

You beat the price I paid for mine by over $100, and I felt I stole mine!

You are in for some of the finest (and some of the most frustrating) Sinatra listening you'll ever enjoy!

Good luck on it arriving in great shape, its a wonderful piece for your collection.

frustrating? why?

[Gary]

Very, very nice!

[MLutthans]

frustrating? why?

It's overall an excellent set, and I think that our ongoing Sinatra album comparisons at SH.TV have significantly boosted appreciation for this box.

As far as content, it's very frustrating that the two THIS IS SINATRA compilations are missing, as those are excellent comps. (Other comps are in the set, so the fact that those two are missing seems rather odd.) Also, the excellent Christmas album received probably its finest-sounding release ever by MFSL, but is only available separately. (There is a slot for it in the box, but you'll need to find the actual disk on your own.)

Sonically, the following albums have thus far "won" the shootouts for several albums:

http://web.me.com/mlutthans/Site_55/Capitol_Scorecard.html

"Swingin' Session" is the only true dog we've hit so far, with only COME SWING WITH ME left to go.

Congrats!

Matt