Shure V15VxMR Burn-In?

[Strabo]

I picked up a new V15VxMR about a week ago and was wondering, if anyone else has experience with one, what changes (if any) occur after using it for a while?

I have about 20 hours on it, maybe more. So far I'm not impressed.:sigh: Actually I feel I might be out a couple hundred bucks:eek: . It doesn't seem to fit so well with my system.

I am refraining from explaining my apprehensions at this point, until I hear from someone that may already have experience with it.

Anyone else have experience with the cart?

[Sckott]

It's actually a great cart. I've had it mounted for a while until I ended up selling it to a friend. Steve also has one if memory serves.

Burn in usually occurs after 36 hours average. As long as its mounted well, it should sound phenominal if you feed it good vinyl. What kind of table and preamp are you using? It should be appropriate with most arms.

If you aren't happy with it, sell it. I may even buy it from you. I actually liked this cart quite well.

[Steve Hoffman]

Originally posted by Strabo


I am refraining from explaining my apprehensions at this point, until I hear from someone that may already have experience with it.



Don't be shy!

Since we are all friends here (or should be by now), can you tell us what sonic characteristics of the V15 you dislike? I'm curious. This is the standard razor flat cart used in the industry to evaluate lacquer cuts and test pressings.

[Beagle]

Perhaps, as an audio friend of mine once said, it is "unimpressive in it's accuracy", meaning it does not go out of it's way to provide sonic thrills and dazzlings highs and excitement, and Concorde-like "speed". It is a very neutral performer with flat response and does not provide moving-coil built-in "excitement".

What you should do is compare an LP (of a good recording) to it's CD counterpart. You should find the timbre and tonal balance to be very close.

[Strabo]

Originally posted by Steve Hoffman


Don't be shy!

Since we are all friends here (or should be by now), can you tell us what sonic characteristics of the V15 you dislike? I'm curious.

I might be doing something wrong, but here goes.

I've set it up twice just to make sure. I don't have a vta adjustment on my arm and so far no way of even checking the vta so that's an unknown at this point.

...Tried varying weights. Starting with the top end of the scale (1.25 grams) on downward and the light end seems to sound the best. It's currently set to about .8 grams, just above the min of .75.

...Tried with and without the stabilizer (brush) and it sounds better to me without.

...Used the Mofi Geodisc to set the length, which put it at the same point in the headshell as my previous cart.

...Squared it up with the protractor that it came with, and the grid on the Geodisc.

...Started with AQ corals (1.5m) interconnects, then changed to Zu Cables entry level silver (Warmouth 1m). It seemed to like the silver better.

It's on an old JVC DD (probably similar to Grants) plugged into a Creek 8SE.

I've been using Steve's new CCR LPs to audition it, even switched back and forth between the SACD and LP of Willy and the Poor Boys.

Now for the sound problem, the top end is very faint. Given that I'm listening on Klipsch Forte II's, the upper mids should reach out and grab me. But they just aren't there. When I compare the SACD vs the LP with the new cart some of the cymbal crashes are almost missing (I mean completely missing). You can hear them when I crank it up, but most of my listening is done around 70db's (apartment living, aint it grand). If I get it going over 80db's the cymbols become audible but below that level they are almost non-existant and overwhelmed by the mids and bass.

The bass comes across very powerfully, and the mids are amazingly silky smooth, but the top end seems to be missing.

Kinda long, but you asked.:laugh:

[cunningham]

Does this thing really track that lightly?

[Sckott]

Most carts at this type track well at a tinge over a gram. This cart should track well at a gram. You may go at 1.20-1.25 if you feel, but I think it tracked accurately at a gram.

[cunningham]

Originally posted by Sckott
Most carts at this type track well at a tinge over a gram. This cart should track well at a gram. You may go at 1.20-1.25 if you feel, but I think it tracked accurately at a gram.

so, if it is tracking at .8, is that a bit light on it's feet, impacting the upper register? or, does it work that way?

[Sckott]

If the stylus isn't meeting the correct pressure, you will mistrack loud passages, and occasionally, you may ensure premature groove wear. Some records are cut louder than others. If you're tracking it at .80 or .90, that should work fine in most cases. That cart wants a gram weighted. Use variation at your own digression.

[sgraham]

Kyhl,

From your description it sounds like there may be too much capacitance in the cables (although traditionally Shure's have liked more than other cartridges). May I suggest, just as an experiment, finding a pair of plain-vanilla short RCA cables and trying them out to see if the high end/mids come back?

Regarding tracking force, while the Shure is certainly an excellent tracker, I'd be uncomfortable with anything less than a gram. There may be a slight trade off: Sometimes I think that with lower tracking forces I hear slightly better transients, but with higher (not excessive, of course) tracking force the overall sound seems a tad smoother; and there's less chance of mistracking, which is very bad for your records.

[Steve Hoffman]

Yeah, what Steve said!

[David R. Modny]

How about VTA? I realize you probably don't have a dedicated, adjustable arm on the JVC. But when you look at the tonearm, from the side, while a record is playing -- does it seem fairly parallel to the record surface?

The reason I ask, is that Micro-line styluses can be sensitive to VTA. Also, as someone else mentioned, does the Creek preamp have any sort of switchable capacitance settings? As with any MM cartridge, this can affect the relation of the highs/upper-mids greatly!

[Alan T]

Is using a scope and a test record the best way to set the overhang/alignment, or is that just overkill, not worth the effort?

[Todd Fredericks]

A test record will help verify if everything's set up correctly or close to that. I use test records to put my mind to ease if I think something may be out of alignment or need track down a suspected problem. They help with checking phase, tracking, etc. I think test records are a good helpful tool. Another set-up listening trick I do is one I learned here. I'll play a DCC record and CD and tune the TT to get a closer match of tonality, etc. It works! Also, normal listening will reveal some flaws that can perhaps be tightened up over time. I've read a lot of good things about this Shure cart and in a year or so when I'll need a new cart, I may try this one out...

Todd

[Strabo]

Thanks for all the suggestions. You guys are great:D .


Originally posted by Sckott
Most carts at this type track well at a tinge over a gram. This cart should track well at a gram. You may go at 1.20-1.25 if you feel, but I think it tracked accurately at a gram.

I will try moving it back to just over a gram again tonight. I understand that using to little force will cause excessive groove wear, that's why I actually started it out at 1.5 grams and worked my way down. At 1.25 grams the timber of the mids (vocals) doesn't even match the SACD. For the record:laugh: I don't like running it at .8 either.
I also wanted to point out that it is not a problem with that one LP. It shows up on everything I've played so far. Didn't want anyone to get the wrong impression.


Originally posted by sgraham
From your description it sounds like there may be too much capacitance in the cables (although traditionally Shure's have liked more than other cartridges). May I suggest, just as an experiment, finding a pair of plain-vanilla short RCA cables and trying them out to see if the high end/mids come back?

I would have never thought of that. Doh! I'll try that tonight too.


Originally posted by David R. Modny
does the Creek preamp have any sort of switchable capacitance settings? As with any MM cartridge, this can affect the relation of the highs/upper-mids greatly!

Unfortunately, nope. The Creek doesn't have any adjustments. Just an on/off switch.


Originally posted by Todd Fredericks
A test record will help verify if everything's set up correctly or close to that.

I've been meaning to get one of these for a while. I guess it's past due.


I'm glad I asked, Thanks again for all the help. I'll try switching things around some more tonight and let you know what happens.

[Todd Fredericks]

MY suggestion is to keep the VTA parallel and set it to a "tinge" over 1gm until the cart breaks in and then do some serious adjustments. Using the SACD and vinyl should help you get a closer match of tonality, etc. Live with any cable changes you make for a few weeks and get used to it's sonic character before making more changes...

Todd

[akshobhyavajra]

Keep in mind too that you have a very nice $3K AVM-20 and a $300.00 SACD player to go along with that. Yet the phono / table combo does not quite measure up to the rest of your equipment. Even with proper setting I doubt you'll reach the level of vinyl nirvana you're looking for.

I suspect that the humble MMF 2.1 will do more justice to the V15 than the JVC QL-Y3F. I am not saying anything bad about the JVC - but from experience I've found that a heavy platter, isolated motor and quality tone arm will make a cart sing. I still have a Technics 1200 with a V15, but my Nottingham leaves it in the dust - no comparison whatsoever.

Your phono will be OK for now, but consider spending at least the same amount of money on a new table as you did on your SACD... like a Rega 2 or a Music Hall. You'll be amazed at the difference.

Just my $0.02 worth - YMMW.....;)

Best Regards,

~Michael~

[Strabo]

Originally posted by akshobhyavajra
Your phono will be OK for now, but consider spending at least the same amount of money on a new table as you did on your SACD... like a Rega 2 or a Music Hall. You'll be amazed at the difference.


Yeah, tried that avenue too. My wife saw the question coming and cut me off with "the look":shake: before I could even ask it. The picture of the purple P3 didn't work either.

So I'm stuck with the JVC for a while.


I stopped by the Needledoctor during lunch today to run it by them. They thought that it is was probably a VTA issue and suggested that I start there.
If I don't get it figured out and fixed I'll probably drop it off with them to take a look at.

[Strabo]

After trying all sorts of adjustments I gave up on setting this thing up.
Went to the store, picked up a new stylus hit play and aaahhhh. There it is.

Everything seems to sound right again.
Listened to a couple of quick tracks on some beat up lps, to avoid doing any more damage to the good ones, and things sounded normal.

On went Albert King. His voice is sweet, and his guitar is dominant again.
Albert Collins is now spinning, and I'm hearing every strike of the cymbals regardless of how soft, bass is no longer overpowering, still the silky smooth vocals, everything is even again. Whew. Oh that guitar.

Did I mention that it all sounds sweet now?:love:

And those horns....:love:

I bought this thing at a great price, supposedly "sealed in box". It came in what looked like original shrink wrap. Maybe?:confused: I didn't notice any finger prints or creases in the manuals, or on the unit when I opened it.
After installing a new stylus I'm back to paying full retail:eek:. Oh well. Could have been worse I guess.

Thought I'd let you know the situation.

Back to breaking this thing in.:cool:

[lukpac]

How would you say the V15 compares to other carts you've heard?

[ZIPGUN99]

Originally posted by Strabo

After installing a new stylus I'm back to paying full retail:eek:. Oh well. Could have been worse I guess.

Thought I'd let you know the situation.

Back to breaking this thing in.:cool:

How much did a new stylus cost you?

I recently bought a V15 too. $375 bucks, I had to shell out.

[ZIPGUN99]

Originally posted by Strabo
I bought this thing at a great price, supposedly "sealed in box". It came in what looked like original shrink wrap. Maybe?

mine was in a rectangular velvet jewelry case, put into a white cardboard box, and then shrink wrapped.

[Strabo]

Originally posted by ZIPGUN99

mine was in a rectangular velvet jewelry case, put into a white cardboard box, and then shrink wrapped.

This one came in red velvet jewelry case inside a silver box with black writing, similar to their pressure gauge. It was shrink wrapped on the outside. The screws and wedges were in plastic inside of it. It all looked legit.


Originally posted by ZIPGUN99
How much did a new stylus cost you?

$200 at Needle Doctor. I saw it for less on the net, but I opted for the convenience of walking into the store and leaving with a new one 5 minutes later.

Originally posted by lukpac
How would you say the V15 compares to other carts you've heard??[/B]

I'm probably not the best person to ask about this. So far I've only listened to a couple of my beat up lp's from goodwill to test it. My reference is the Grado Silver (previous cart). I originally went with this one because of all the talk I've seen about it, and then I ran into a good price on it. Or so I thought.

I'm the type of person that get's really frustrated when something that should work on paper, ends up not working. The euphoria in my previous posts was mostly based on the release of that frustration as things suddenedly worked again.

[TSmithPage]

I've been reading this thread with interest, and realize all over again why I'm so glad about the advent of CDs. The amount of money and variables involved in getting a system that will make LPs sound good is staggering. I spend so much on the music that, absent a lottery win, I doubt I could ever afford on my meager attorney salary the kind of $ needed to upgrade my turntable to the levels discussed here.

That said, I bought last weekend a standalone CD burner for the purpose of transferring some of my vinyl that never made it to CD over to CDR. I rarely use my turntable anymore and my present cartridge (a Grado) is probably 7 or 8 years old. I was told by a guy at a stereo shop that a replacement needle wouldn't do the job and that the cartridge will need to be replaced due to its age, and that carts have about a 4 year life span. I'm interested in getting a replacement cart in the $100 or less range that will allow me to accurately transfer the LPs to CDR. Any suggestions in this price range, and websites I might want to use to get the best deal?

[Grant]

I have the JVC L-A31 DD table with the straight arm.

Over the years, I have found that the adjustment marks on the arm and the anti-skate adjustments are woefully innaccurate, and one of the best purchases I ever made for the TT is the Shure tracking guage. I don't get tracking distortion with any cart if I use it's measurments. I never used a test record, though.

I have a low-cost Shure, but it sounds very much like what was described concerning the V15. The mids are smooth, but not bright, the highs are all there but are not exaggerated, and the bass is warm and powerful, even with this cheap cart! I know that when I compare CDs to their vinyl counterparts, they match. I'm not kidding! I must be doing something right! I can only imaging what the V15 sounds like on my table. I guess that's the signature Shure sound. But if you like moving coils, forget it!

BTW, I use the plain RCA cable built into the TT.