New analog front end, help is needed

[nin]

Hi folks!

I will next year upgrade my VPI HW-19MK4 / RB-300 to a much better deck.
The most interesting decks are the VPI TNT HR-X and SME 30/2.
Well, as I CANNOT hear the decks before I buy them (there are no high-end decks here in Sweden too listen too), I must trust on reviews in magazines and what people say about their stuff.

So please tell me what YOU think is good & why it's sound good?

Turntable: max 16-17K$ (VPI & SME right now)
Arm: max 3500$ (Graham 2.2 is the one I think about now)
Cartridge: max 3000$ (Lyra Helikon maybe)


Btw, I want a TT that I DON'T need to tweak and look after all the time.


Thanks in advance!

-Mattias Karlsson-

[Ronflugelguy]

Boy, I'm trying to get my VPI jr to a MK IV right now. The TNT, which I have used and played seems to be a great value, although, i haven't seen or heard the new model. I'll probably be visiting my dealer in the near future to check it out. Good luck on your quest for better analog sound.

[akshobhyavajra]

-Mattias-

I noticed you posted this question on AA a few days ago:

http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.pl?forum=vinyl&n=166848&highlight=TNT-HRX&r=&session=

I don't know if you were able to find some answers in the archives there, but I know several members purchased the new TNT recently and left a positive review.

For some additional insight you may wish to contact Larry @ Hollywood Sound in Florida. He'll be helpful in answering any questios you might have and may also be able to get you a very good price - should you decide to buy from him (even with shipping and custom charges).

His number is (877) 921-1408 and you can e-mail him at larry@hwdsound.com

Regards,

~Michael~

[nin]

Thanks Michael!

I have gotten great help from one guy that have the HR-X.
I will ook more what other people say and reviews in paper before I decide.

-Mattias-

[aashton]

Hi Mattias

Regarding the SME - the dealers I know who stock it or have experience of it all think it is an excellent deck - up there with the best - although one of them actually preferred the SME/20. I have no personal experience of any of the VPI decks I am sorry to say :( maybe one day :)

One turntable that has been highly recommended to me is the Platine Verdier - I have heard it and it sounds excellent but looks a little agricultural. Another that is in your price range and has looks to die for and not too bad sound would be the Clearaudio Master Reference.

The Graham arm is super - I have one :) I always keep an eye out to see if there is a better match for my system but it remains (although it is away for servicing at present) - I like the look of the latest Triplanar arm and the Breuer arms have been very highly recommended to me.

All the best - Andrew

[cunningham]

I believe Tom Port sports a Triplanar. arm

[IceNine]

I am turntable shopping right now, and am in the middle of auditioning the SME 20/2 with the new Graham. It is a wonderful combo; but I am wondering if the SME 30/2, though more expensive, is a better table...

[proufo]

Hello Mattias.

I'd love to be in your dilemma ;)

I, as you, have no access to high end equipment to audition. But as a general comment, I suggest you write down clearly what you want to obtain with "a much better deck".

Once you know that, it is relatively easy with the comments from reviewers and owners to check if any change goes in the direction you want. It is still a guess. You won't really know until it is installed, tuned and playing.

Not doing this, is leaving it to chance. At that level of investment, you should do better.

[Gary Freed]

At those price points, I wouldn't be too concerned. Your turntable is worth twice as much as my whole system.

Happy Hunting.:p

[Tom]

Mattias

There are a number of choices in that price range, You could maybe find a demo
of the Walker Proscenium Gold, Simon Yorke, Clearaudio, Basis and the DIY Teres 255 which is said to be up there with the best. My advice before you spend that kind of money is to attend the Home Entertainment Show in San Francisco June 5-8 and you'll be able to make a much better choice.

Tom

[proufo]

Originally posted by Tom
Mattias

There are a number of choices in that price range, You could maybe find a demo
of the Walker Proscenium Gold, Simon Yorke, Clearaudio, Basis and the DIY Teres 255 which is said to be up there with the best. My advice before you spend that kind of money is to attend the Home Entertainment Show in San Francisco June 5-8 and you'll be able to make a much better choice.

Tom

My current wish list is a Teres (DIY) with a Rega top model tonearm and a Rega MM cart.

Check Teres Audio (audio.com) and Red Point (http://www.redpoint-audio-design.com)

Only problem is that they are way CHEAPER than your budget :D

[nin]

I am turntable shopping right now, and am in the middle of auditioning the SME 20/2 with the new Graham. It is a wonderful combo; but I am wondering if the SME 30/2, though more expensive, is a better table...

Well, I got an e-mail from Michael Fremer that probably in march issue of stereophile the SME 30/2 review will show up. And them we also have a SME 20/2 review in TAS soon.


I, as you, have no access to high end equipment to audition. But as a general comment, I suggest you write down clearly what you want to obtain with "a much better deck".


Well, done that! I'm down to 3 (maybe 4) tables that are interesting. Airtangent 2001 with Airtangent 2002 arm, SME 30/2 with Graham 2.2 arm and VPI TNT HR-X with JWM 12.5 arm (and maybe Walker Proscenium Gold).


There are a number of choices in that price range, You could maybe find a demo
of the Walker Proscenium Gold, Simon Yorke, Clearaudio, Basis and the DIY Teres 255 which is said to be up there with the best. My advice before you spend that kind of money is to attend the Home Entertainment Show in San Francisco June 5-8 and you'll be able to make a much better choice.


Well, I live in Sweden and there are no demo's. But I maybe can get a special demo later on, but i must check first.

[proufo]

Well, done that! I'm down to 3 (maybe 4) tables that are interesting. Airtangent 2001 with Airtangent 2002 arm, SME 30/2 with Graham 2.2 arm and VPI TNT HR-X with JWM 12.5 arm (and maybe Walker Proscenium Gold).

I meant what are you looking to improve? Where do you perceive deficiencies while listening to music? Do they really bother you?

If you don't perceive the deficiencies while listening to music, I'd suggest you keep your existing setup and use the money for music, food and traveling. It is much more rewarding!!!

[Gary Freed]

Hi Nin!

Sounds like you have great equipment already. Could be your cables, speakers anything down the line will effect the sound.

I agree with Proufo!:)

[cunningham]

Nin,

You might post your dilemma on Audiogon.com , there are some serious TT' heads there as well, and with many opinions! As in many things, the degree of extremes is in the eye of the beholder.

best of luck!

[IceNine]

Finding demos available from most dealers is not easy unless you have a good relationship with one - analog is even more difficult because so few dealers really stock and/or show the items.

This last week with the SME 20/2, Graham, and my own Clearaudio Accurate has been a real eye-opener though. It is like my entire vinyl collection has been hiding somewhere, and all of a sudden the music has presented itself anew - digital NEVER sounded this good (and I have some pretty good digital equipment - Levinson 37 and 360s).

The question now becomes "What else is out there?" and "How can I get my hands on some of this stuff to listen to it?"

The SME 20 at almost $9000 seems to be a great table; but if the Clearaudio Master Ref is $12k, might not that price point be a better investment? A demo of the Walker sounds like a good idea; but it might take 2 days to get it home and set up. And how much better can the $25k SME 30/2 sound to make it worthwhile when I am coveting some new Siltech Ref speaker cables? Or maybe it's the arm and cartridge that make the most difference, so perhaps the budget Eurolab table, at $2000, might make more sense?

As my mother would say, "This should be the worst problem I ever have"; but nothing is very stratghtforward in analogland. The search goes on...

[Patrick]

Our own Tom Port, forum name "HUMOREM" is a VPI dealer, talk to him. I think there is a link to either Better Records or www.dccblowout.com on the homepage of this site? Pat.

[cunningham]

Originally posted by Patrick
Our own Tom Port, forum name "HUMOREM" is a VPI dealer, talk to him. I think there is a link to either Better Records or www.dccblowout.com on the homepage of this site? Pat.


He is also a Triplanar dealer.;)

[nin]

Originally posted by proufo


I meant what are you looking to improve? Where do you perceive deficiencies while listening to music? Do they really bother you?

If you don't perceive the deficiencies while listening to music, I'd suggest you keep your existing setup and use the money for music, food and traveling. It is much more rewarding!!!


Well, I use a VPI HW-19MK4 now and I want THE BEST for my vinyls. I not interested in traveling or food, only music and movies. I want to get the most out of my vinyl's and that's why I want better TT. Sure I can get a lot more LP's for that kind of money, but why should I? I already have 1200 LP's and getting more every week, but I find it better value to get my a new TT that can make all my LP's I already have become like new!

-Mattias-

[proufo]

Originally posted by nin
Well, I use a VPI HW-19MK4 now and I want THE BEST for my vinyls. I not interested in traveling or food, only music and movies. I want to get the most out of my vinyl's and that's why I want better TT.
Hello Mattias.

Are you able to itemize what exactly "THE BEST" means for you?

Some people believe that the best is a Thorens 124, with an Ortofon vintage design cart.

Other believe it is a 80KUS$ TT with an 11K cart.

For example, most days I believe that I prefer a lean and mean Lp front end, one that can provide a lot of detail, tight bass and extended highs, plus a revealing midrange.

My Teres TT design aims to eliminate any "euphonic" resonances, just to retrieve a clean signal out of the groove. My arm, my cart and my phono pre will be chosen based on that concept.

Should the sound need sweetening downstream, I can choose speakers and amps based on the characteristics of my TT front end.

[nin]

proufo, Well I belive and know that better tables cost more money. I have heard some better tables and they give me more of everything.
I have no problem with getting a Airtangent table and arm to test before, but the others are maybe a problem.

[IceNine]

If it is "The Best" that you are interested in, I suggest that you read Jonathan Valin's review of the Walker Proscenium Gold in TAS last December 02/ Jan 03 issue. Also, go to http://www.walkeraudio.com/

For a mere $25k you get a TT and arm combo that is second fiddle to none. If I had the scratch, and a spouse who wouldn't notice a 400 pound monster in the corner, that would be my choice.... But the thing really IS gorgeous (I have seen one at my dealer)!!

[mikel]

Nin,

i noticed that in your choices that you have not considered any tt's with vacuum hold-down......any particular reason? this feature can be a big benefit especially if you play alot of used records. it will also extend your cartridge life.....not to mention lower the noise floor of every record.

i recommend that you add the Basis Debut Vacuum as another consideration. i would rate it above the TNT HRX. it has a very good suspension and quality of build is very high.

if you are considering spending over $15k and even over $20k and you are looking for the best you also might consider a used Rockport. as good as the Walker is i don't think it is quite on the level of the Sirius II. i owned a Sirius II for the past year and it was fantastic. if you get lucky and find a used Sirius III it is on another planet from everything else. i have had mine for 2 months and every listen is a new adventure with very familiar recordings.

one other very excellent tt that is European made would be the La Luce Centoventi......i have a friend that is very happy with his and another friend that loves his SME30/SME IV.

good luck......whichever of the tt's you are considering you buy will be wonderfull.

[nin]

IceNine, Yes, I have the TAS magazine. I'm very interested but there are three things that are not so good with Walker:
1. I have heard that it is hard to set-up correctly. Not good for a music lover and tweak-hate like me :)
2. I really do want a local dealer that takes it in. No Walker dealers in Sweden.
3. It's really a little over my budget. 20K$ for TT and arm.
But I would LOVE to have one.


mikel, Well, the Swedish Basis dealer here in Sweden takes double for the TT than US price, so I don't think that is worth it. The Swedish dealer that sells SME 30/2 are really good as you buy it for the same price that it cost in England (around 17 000$).
And I know that what ever player I get a will get a superb player!
Take care!

[IceNine]

nin:

Got you on the tweak thing, then. So, also, stay away from the Clearaudio Master Ref from what I hear...or any of the big platter long drive string models e.g. Platine, etc.

Sounds to me like the SME may be the choice; but remember that the 30/2 is $25k without the arm and cartridge. I am now listening to the 20/2 and it is quite impressive - no muss, no fuss. Just clamp the record, turn on the speed control, and Whamo!!! It is built like an Abrams tank!!! Arm tweaking is all you have to do; and I am sure that there isn't an arm in the world that you don't have to play with ALOT to get right...

I think, however, that the SME's can only take either SME or Graham arms; but you should check that out.



Keep me posted.

IceNine:angel: