Who, today, makes sealed box speakers?

[riddlemay]

I'm becoming convinced that sealed box (or acoustic suspension) speakers are the way to go. Part of what convinces me is a very nice experience I'm having with a restored pair of AR 2AX's, the speaker of my youth. These may indeed be my holy grail, but I'm not certain of that yet. (I need to do some tweaking of the mid and high pots to see if I can dial in a perfect balance.)

If I'm going to go in search of "bookshelf"/standmount speakers of the sealed box variety among those manufactured today, what are my choices? Most speakers these days (especially of that size) seem to be ported.

[fjhuerta]

The B&W's let you choose between ported / sealed alignments with port plugs.

[Joe Nino-Hernes]

I don't know of any good ones. I still find my AR-3's hard to beat.

[soundQman]

The NHT speakers are sealed-box acoustic suspension design. They are the inheritors of the AR design legacy, basically. I'm not absolutely sure about the current models. I have some of their models from the 90s and decided myself that this was the way to go. I'm quite happy with them. I also have their biggest (but discontinued) subwoofer. Tight and tuneful low bass like you wouldn't believe. The main models I have are a bit tipped up in the treble, but I think they may have toned this down some in recent models.

[Steve Hoffman]

ESP.

[Dusty Chalk]

Spendor S3/5

[endust4237]

Naim

[chosenhandle]

Green Mountain Audio

[Mike F]

I don't know of any good ones. :laugh:

If I'm going to go in search of "bookshelf"/standmount speakers of the sealed box variety among those manufactured today, what are my choices? Most speakers these days (especially of that size) seem to be ported.ATC make, arguably, the best speakers in the world. They've only relatively recently begun to move into the domestic audio world and so are a less known name than the same old/same old of regular HIFI. Sure it's a matter of taste but at each price point from the $1,000 SCM7 (numbers refer to internal volume of enclosure in litres) to the $44,000 SCM300 they are a contender for the best.

http://www.atc.gb.net/
http://www.flatearthaudio.com/

I'm probably going to move from my SCM12 to SCM35. Listening to a couple of speakers recently I liked most the Living Voice but upon returning home I thought my humble 12's at a quarter the price were a bit better at organization. caveats: 85dB sensitivity so power is an issue. And honesty, you'll hear what's behind them be that equipment or recordings. Their honesty isn't of brightness or harshness but of high resolution. I think they're a little laid back actually. At least in their passive versions.

The active versions are a different matter, think of Ferrari. They'd be found used on high profile projects like mastering the SACD for Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon or the soundtrack for Lord of the Rings.

If you'd rather colouration and distortion look elsewhere. I love mine! :thumbsup:
Ported speakers are cheating/faking it! ;)

[Black Elk]

ATC make, arguably, the best speakers in the world. [snip]

If you'd rather colouration and distortion look elsewhere. I love mine! :thumbsup:
Ported speakers are cheating/faking it! ;)

No criticism of ATC from me, I've used the SCM50, SCM100, SCM150 and SCM300 at various times, but you must realize that virtually all of ATC's speakers are ported??

[Taurus]

Now Hear This! (NHT) Classics (http://nhthifi.com/p-ht-classic.html). The Absolute Zero, the Two and the Three are acoustic-suspension types.

I've never heard any NHTs (and these are new anyway) but they've had great reputations for years.

Like most sealed designs these aren't particularly efficient but the tradeoff is deeper bass compared to a similarly-sized loudspeaker. And no matter what some of the techie types say, compared to ported designs, to me sealed speakers almost always have smoother/richer/more precise bass.

[Metralla]

ESP.
Hardly acoustic suspension, mate. They are not ported - sure. But don't both models use Isobarik loading of the bass drivers? I know the big one does.

[Mike F]

No criticism of ATC from me, I've used the SCM50, SCM100, SCM150 and SCM300 at various times, but you must realize that virtually all of ATC's speakers are ported??
I presumed that riddlemay would stay under the $6,000 mark where the 7, 10-2, 12, 20, 20-2 and 35 models are all sealed boxes. The step up from those launches you above $10,000, though the 20 series belongs in performance to that elite group. Also, I'm sure the port in those big boys isn't for the conventional purpose of extending bass. I read once why it's there once but can't remember the answer. It's more of an energy vent or something.

Despite my personal adoration and public expression of the same, I don't think I've actually recommended anyone to buy as I perceive them to be too much of a commitment in associative gear. But then again I'm probably being too fussy as I drove a pair with a NAD CDP and NAD amp once and thought the speakers a revelation. Very low distortion, linear, dynamic and very, very fast. Electrostatics in a box. So in that sense they are very rewarding as any upgrades behind them are obvious to hear. It had been a long time that I didn't listen to anything else after I had my ATC and when I did visit some dealers I was suprised at how unimpressed I was by some other stuff. That first venture out had me hear Macintosh amps with either Triangle speakers or Macintosh speakers which sounded noisy and non-linear in comparison. But it could have been something else as sometimes I listen at home, maybe in a poor mood, and I think everything sounds terrible, artificial. The next day things sound magnificent.

I guess musical enjoyment sometimes requires psychologically meeting the gear half way?

[soundQman]

Now Hear This! (NHT) Classics (http://nhthifi.com/p-ht-classic.html). The Absolute Zero, the Two and the Three are acoustic-suspension types.

I've never heard any NHTs (and these are new anyway) but they've had great reputations for years.

Like most sealed designs these aren't particularly efficient but the tradeoff is deeper bass compared to a similarly-sized loudspeaker. And no matter what some of the techie types say, compared to ported designs, to me sealed speakers almost always have smoother/richer/more precise bass.
That's right. The bass rolls off more gradually, so you can sense it's there even if the speakers aren't huge. Plus it gives tighter more controlled bass than the ported designs. I happen to be in luck with a listening room that reinforces very low bass to a certain extent, so even though my main speakers theoretically only go down to 35 Hz according to spec, they actually play down to 20-25 Hz in-room, albeit with a little bit of rolloff (maybe 6-10 dB). That's the beauty of having a sealed box design in some cases.

[riddlemay]

I appreciate all the replies and I hope they keep coming.

Re sensitivity: I've been surprised since hooking them up that my AR 2 AX's have more subjective loudness, not less, than my rear-ported Revel M20's. The Revel is not a particularly efficient speaker, but the ARs, to my understanding, are even less efficient as defined by the specs. Yet it takes a lower volume setting on my amplifier to achieve a satisfying (and subjectively equivalent) volume level with the ARs than with the Revels. I realize that there's some apples-to-oranges going on here, since the ARs are larger speakers, and are 3-ways using a bigger woofer than the 2-way Revels, but nevertheless I was fearing a low-efficiency sealed-box speaker might be a bit of a drain on my 60 watt amp relative to the Revels, and I'm finding the opposite to be the case.

Mike F is pretty right as to my price range: I'm interested in the world of bookshelf/standmount sealed box speakers that would be less than $3000 (and the lesser the better!). Although if someone has a suggestion for one that's more than that, and worth it, I'm all ears.

[Barry Wom]

I'm becoming convinced that sealed box (or acoustic suspension) speakers are the way to go. Part of what convinces me is a very nice experience I'm having with a restored pair of AR 2AX's, the speaker of my youth. These may indeed be my holy grail, but I'm not certain of that yet. (I need to do some tweaking of the mid and high pots to see if I can dial in a perfect balance.)

If I'm going to go in search of "bookshelf"/standmount speakers of the sealed box variety among those manufactured today, what are my choices? Most speakers these days (especially of that size) seem to be ported.

Get a BBC clone, all sealed like an LS35/A or LS5/9 - Harbeth 30 is a modern equivilent, also check out Spendor speakers or even an old pair of Linn Kans (ie Mk II)

Tim

[Metralla]

Also, I'm sure the port in those big boys isn't for the conventional purpose of extending bass. I read once why it's there once but can't remember the answer. It's more of an energy vent or something.
Sounds odd. See if you can find your reference. I'd be interested.

[-=Rudy=-]

My advice? Go with whatever sounds good. I use ported speakers from the late 70s/early 80s that I'm willing to bet most people would think are an "acoustic suspension" design upon listening.

Some of us (those who have designed/built speakers, even from a hobbyist standpoint) have discussed this here before: ports are NOT for extending the bass: ports are ONLY a method of tuning a driver to a cabinet. Similar to passive radiator systems, where the undriven radiator is tuned to the main driver and the cabinet size. Yes, the tuning may extend the bass response, but that is not the primary function of the port or radiator; the idea is to tune the speaker to the cabinet to maximize its output and flatten its response. For acoustic suspension, the cabinet size is key; too large of a cabinet will make the bass weak, where too small will rob you of low bass and give a mid-bass hump. The "tuning" here is the size of the cabinet or, more precisely, the volume of air trapped inside the cabinet. Ported systems are tuned via length; radiators are tuned by adding small weights to the radiator.

"Sealed" is IMHO a general term and can mean any number of things: acoustic suspension systems are sealed, isobaric systems are sealed (this is where the bass drivers are "stacked" one behind the other), and if you want to get technical, even the enclosure behind the driver in a bass horn is sealed. ;)

If it sounds good to you, buy it. Don't fret over the technology. :) And I'll admit it would take a lot to get me to part with my speakers, but OTOH, I also like the sound of my Small Advents, I get a kick out of the Boston A40-IIs in the kitchen, I love tweaking my "Frankenstein" Boston A150s, and I still lust after a pair of electrostatics. :D

[SamS]

For speakers on the lower end, I'd second the recommendation for NHTs. I think their SuperOne is a bargain sealed box speaker that can actually have good bass if placed properly.

Moving up the food chain a bit, I'm pretty sure their are a few Dynaudio bookshelf speakers that are sealed.

Beware, most sealed-box speakers have low sensitivity ratings.... lots of amp power a must!

[Green Tea]

Beware, most sealed-box speakers have low sensitivity ratings....
lots of amp power a must!

Very true. My sealed-box Celestion's are only 84 sensitivity...they need 50
watts minimum. The more power the better with these little boxes.

[soundQman]

For speakers on the lower end, I'd second the recommendation for NHTs. I think their SuperOne is a bargain sealed box speaker that can actually have good bass if placed properly.

Moving up the food chain a bit, I'm pretty sure their are a few Dynaudio bookshelf speakers that are sealed.

Beware, most sealed-box speakers have low sensitivity ratings.... lots of amp power a must!
:agree: They can eat up the power, but it depends on the size of your room and how close your listening position is. And how loud you like to crank it up.

[Black Elk]

No criticism of ATC from me, I've used the SCM50, SCM100, SCM150 and SCM300 at various times, but you must realize that virtually all of ATC's speakers are ported??
I presumed that riddlemay would stay under the $6,000 mark where the 7, 10-2, 12, 20, 20-2 and 35 models are all sealed boxes. The step up from those launches you above $10,000, though the 20 series belongs in performance to that elite group.

Well, my experience has been predominantly with their professional models, all of which (including the tiny T16) except the 20 are ported. My only experience with ATC's domestic series has been with the large SCM70 which was also ported. However, I see on their website that almost all the domestic speakers are not ported. I wonder why that is.

[Metralla]

ports are NOT for extending the bass: ports are ONLY a method of tuning a driver to a cabinet.
I can't agree with this statement. I'm not sure why you say this.

A bass reflex design is exactly for extending the bass. The idea is to use the otherwise wasted energy off the back of the diaphram, turn it back in phase using the port, and reinforce the output of the speaker system. This extends the bass about half an octave, although the ultimate rolloff is steeper than for acoustic suspension.

Look at the 3db down point of an acoustic suspension speaker; then look at the 3db down point on a similar speaker which has bass reinforcement using a ported design.

[fjhuerta]

Some of us (those who have designed/built speakers, even from a hobbyist standpoint) have discussed this here before: ports are NOT for extending the bass: ports are ONLY a method of tuning a driver to a cabinet. Similar to passive radiator systems, where the undriven radiator is tuned to the main driver and the cabinet size. Yes, the tuning may extend the bass response, but that is not the primary function of the port or radiator; the idea is to tune the speaker to the cabinet to maximize its output and flatten its response.
True! A well built ported speaker can have bass with a low group delay. Not as low as a sealed speaker, but if done correctly, all you'd hear would be nice, low notes.

The best subwoofer I've heard, actually, is a sealed one, though. It's at my home - it's an IB sub, with 4 15" drivers driven by a meager 180 watts of power. Bass goes down to an F3 of 23 Hz, and if I use my digital EQ, I can flatten it to 20, and get useful bass way down the low teens...

[riddlemay]

The B&W's let you choose between ported / sealed alignments with port plugs.
Is it therefore possible to turn any ported speaker into a sealed-box speaker (with all the advantages of sealed-box speakers) simply by the insertion of a plug?

I ask because, elsewhere on these boards, someone wrote about a company that custom-makes pieces of foam to any dimension. If I simply insert the right size foam into the backs of my Revel M20s, will I, presto-chango, transform their characteristics into those of sealed-box speakers?