What about DVD-V and DVD-A ? And what does "S" and "P" stand for?

[FabFourFan]

Hello to everyone here on the new Steve Hoffman music forums!
Surely this is history in the making!!! Go, Steve, go!!!

Question 1:

In the summary announcement on the home page, there is no mention of releasing any S&P product in DVD-A or DVD-V format.
Steve, would you care to comment on this point? TIA!

Question 2:

What does the "S" and the "P" stand for in the name of your new S&P record label?
It doesn't seem immediately obvious to me, but maybe I'm just slow today... :)


Of course, please accept my sincerest congratulations on the new label,
and rest assured that many of us will support your latest efforts
by buying as many copies of everything you release as we can afford!


Mike 'FabFourFan' Patrick

[Steve Hoffman]

FabFourFan!

Glad to see you here.

I was very tired last night and I forgot to add DVD-A to the list.

Sorry!

The S is Bill Straw (of Blix Street Records) and the P is Sam Passamano (of DCC Compact Classics). Their partnership originally was going to be for standard CD reissues, but I've turned them toward the light!!!!

[ED in NY]

Steve, curiously with the formation of S & P, where does this leave DCC. Will you be doing your "sweet thang" for both labels ?
If yes, all the better for us !

-ED

[Steve Hoffman]

I'll work for both labels.

Lots of great music out there that needs a bit of help, mastering wise.

Let's see what happens next with DCC, and S&P!

[AudioGirl]

I love the work you did at DCC and recently discovered that I had always liked work that you had done at MCA (although, I didn't know it was you until recently)

With your magic touch, any label is lucky to have you!!

Good luck in all your endeavors!

AudioGirl :)

[GregM]

Steve, congrats on your new venture which I will be following with great interest. I don't wanna start a whole "thing" here and more bickering about the pros and cons of the formats, but just wish to weigh in and say that I'd buy any SACD you release, and none of the other formats.

I would just as soon you *didn't* release any DVD-A (by DVD-V I am assuming you mean DAD--I hope you don't intend to start remastering movies from film :D ). I understand that more resources are involved in licensing for DVD-A release, and I would hate to think a fledgeling label like S&P would spin its wheels and spend its seed money negotiating deals like that, knowing SACD can do what DVD-A can do, and is generally preferred by your target audience.

I suppose I would not object if S&P releases DADs, although I personally have no way of playing them and believe them to be redundant at this point. Anyway, I think you saw at CES the reception SACD has received in the audiophile community and I hope you soon join the list of labels releasing SACDs.

[FabFourFan]

Originally posted by GregM
I don't wanna start a whole "thing" here and more bickering about the pros and cons of the formats, but just wish to weigh in and say that I'd buy any SACD you release, and none of the other formats.
I would just as soon you *didn't* release any DVD-A ... knowing SACD can do what DVD-A can do ...


Well, since you brought it up first :) , I suppose now it's only fair to mention the growing trend in the audiophile press illuminating the designed-in colorations of DSD and, therefore, the characteristic 'sound' of SACDs...

Please allow me to quote (without their permission, and with original italics) from the latest Stereophile, from Jonathan Scull's review of the new $5500 Pioneer DV-AX10:

"...[T]hrough the DV-AX10 I heard DVD-Audio sounding extremely fine... SACD was eh, so-so... With this player, DVD-A finally proved SACD's undoing..."

Hmm... There are other not-so-kind words on SACD 'sound' in both this Stereophile and the latest Abso!ute Sound, in case you missed them. Can you see the storm clouds gathering? :eek:

Now, I'm sure your SACD player sounds wonderful, but just how long did they think that the unprecedented and extreme digital noise shaping of DSD was going to be "unheard" during playback?

---
So, I agree that I don't wanna start a whole 'thing' here bickering about the formats - because I expect to be buying them all, for the time being!

Please, Steve, just release something new!!!

[GregM]

It is well known that the AX10 converts DSD to PCM and therefore it doesn't qualify as an SACD player in the DSD conversion sense of it. Steve himself is on record saying SACD is the best digital audio he ever heard, so that says it all. Also read Steve's post describing CES, where he said DVD-A was a virtual no-show and SACD was fairly ubiquitous. You can believe what you want of course.

Peace.

[Paul L.]

Fabfourfan:
At best all this review indicates is that this particular machine is not as good at playing SACD as it is at playing DVD-A. It is no indication whatsoever that SACD is inferior to DVD-A.

My alarm clock with built-in CD player is a better clock than a CD player. Proves nothing.

Plus, don't go by just one person's opinion.

Plus, for the reviewer to make such a preposterous statement based on one machine makes his judgment untrustworthy in my book.

[FabFourFan]

Originally posted by GregM
It is well known that the AX10 converts DSD to PCM and therefore it doesn't qualify as an SACD player in the DSD conversion sense of it.
Although this is not explicitly mentioned in the text of the review or in the measurement section, I think that is correct, and one might expect it to affect the sound, yes.

Please remind me again what Sony does in their top-of-the-line combo DVD-A/SACD players? ;)


Originally posted by GregM
Steve himself is on record saying SACD is the best digital audio he ever heard, so that says it all.
Mr Hoffman's opinion does carry a lot of weight, as I've said previously more than once. (And besides, I wouldn't have expected Sony to give Steve something crappy to listen to at home!)

But I also recall that Steve mentioned the inferior sound of the CD 'layer' on SACD, which means that everything really isn't as perfect as you are determined to suggest.

And let's be honest - until DSD, audiophiles have not had real-world experience with playback systems deliberately awash in digitally-generated high-frequency noise.

So, the subject is not quite closed, is it?


Originally posted by GregM
You can believe what you want of course.
If only it were that simple, GregM.

I try to believe that what I hear for myself is more important than what I've been told is true and/or want to believe.

But sometimes it gets hard. Sometimes the road is winding and obscure and it's easy to get lost for a while.

Which makes having this forum all the more precious, IMHO.


Originally posted by GregM
Peace.
And truth.

[FabFourFan]

Originally posted by Paul L.
Fabfourfan:
At best all this review indicates is that this particular machine is not as good at playing SACD as it is at playing DVD-A. It is no indication whatsoever that SACD is inferior to DVD-A.

Of course! In fact, the reviewer suggested that it was the product's 'combo' nature that may have led to weaker SACD performance, which he ordinarily expects to be "great" on top-of-the-line gear.

[GregM]

OK, you escalated it :D

>> But I also recall that Steve mentioned the inferior sound of the CD 'layer' on SACD, which means that everything really isn't as perfect as you are determined to suggest. <<

This is about as abstract as it gets. What do you think Steve said? And what did I suggest is "perfect"? And what is your point?

>> And let's be honest - until DSD, audiophiles have not had real-world experience with playback systems deliberately awash in digitally-generated high-frequency noise. <<

If your only criticism of SACD is that it shapes the noise into ultrasonic regions that your dog can't even hear, this is indeed a good format for you. I have complaints about DVD-A in the audible range, which is far more serious.

>> So, the subject is not quite closed, is it? <<

If the subject is DVD-A vs SACD, it's pretty much closed. DVD-A ain't going anywhere.

>> I try to believe that what I hear for myself is more important than what I've been told is true and/or want to believe. <<

This statement kind of reads like "What I try to believe is more important than what I want to believe," but I get your point and I agree. I should hope we all go by what we hear. Do you want me to share (again) my experience and perceptions of both formats?

>> And truth. <<

Indeed. Don't look now but the truth is there's a DSD system at Abbey Road. Could it be that those Fab Four tapes are being transferred to DSD as we speak? ;)

[jkerr]

Originally posted by GregM
Indeed. Don't look now but the truth is there's a DSD system at Abbey Road. Could it be that those Fab Four tapes are being transferred to DSD as we speak? ;) [/B]

I hope they won't be ****ilated in the process!:)

[FabFourFan]

Originally posted by GregM
OK, you escalated it :D

Oh, please, this is just tiring, and you are just too touchy about the whole subject.

So, ok, you win. I held out until 2001, but now the battle is over. SACD is perfect sound forever. Yay!

[FabFourFan]

Originally posted by jkerr
I hope they won't be ****ilated in the process! :)
In my mind, I can already see his name in the Guinness Book of World Records, for THE LOUDEST SACD IN EXISTENCE! :D

[EJM]

I am pleased to hear that DVD-A will be getting quality development in software. I belive that there is a real future in multi-channel sound. Whatever ones preferances are in formats they should be happy to see the growth as it can only help creat a better product for everybody. Competition breeds better quality and value.

I recall drueling over the first review for the Sony Hi-Fi VCR. Some time later I could afford the vhs version for less than half the cost at 1500.00 CDN $. It may not have been quite the quality as beta but prices kept dropping and the software multiplied. DVD blew my mind and I really enjoy hearing the WALL in 5.1. I haven't purchased a DVD-A player or SACD yet but I have some DVD-A discs with and without DTS and this will motivate me to go the next step and purchase a DVD-A player and perhaps a SACD player or combination if the software warrants it.


As more people are exposed to the formats and there is less disention within the audiophile forums they will grow. There will always be products for those seeking the pinacle but let the base line rise and we will all reap the benefits.

Regards and the best of luck with the new site

EJ

[lukpac]

Originally posted by GregM
If the subject is DVD-A vs SACD, it's pretty much closed. DVD-A ain't going anywhere.
Huh? Walk into Best Buy sometime. You'll see a bunch of DVD-A releases. Try and find some SACD releases - I know I've never seen any...

[GregM]

Lukpac, this just isn't true. I've been to two Best Buys in my area during the past month. Both not only had dozens of SACDs marked $15.99 to $17.99, but there was a kiosk set up with an SACD player and 5 little satellite speakers so buyers could demo SACD in the disc machine department. I saw no sign of DVD-A.

Next time you're at Best Buy, check out the disc machines. Adjacent to the SACD kiosk there is a rack about four feet tall stocked with SACD's.