Very interesting Elton John Tumbleweed Connection LP find

I picked up a UK DJM Tumbleweed DJLPS410-A1/B2 black vinyl (not the red tinted one I've heard about) and put it on tonight. After hearing the US UNI for so long I expected to finally have a LP version similar in MIX to my CDs (ie: single track vocals on "Where To Now...").

First impressions: WOW the bass is amazing!

Anyway, I flipped over to side 2 and noticed that the chorus of "Where to Now St. Peter" was indeed DOUBLE-TRACKED!!!! I thought that the UK LPs were single-tracked while the US versions were doubled. Could I have been hearing things? Nope. I put it on again...and again.

Then I put on the UNI just to make sure...Yep, it sounded similar. There was less bass and the fidelity of the recording paled to the DJM, but MIXWISE it was the same.

I then tested my CDs. The Japan MCA: Single. The US POLYDOR: Single. The ULTRADISC II: Single.

What's going on? Folks who have the DJM LP...are your "Where To Now..." chorus vocals doubled...or singled? If they're singled, why do I have a mutant Tumbleweed? Please help!

 

That is interesting, Jason. I always thought the remixed album was made for the American market. I grew up with the US UNI pressing and was taken aback the first time I heard the CD. Where did the double-tracked vocals go on "Where to Now St. Peter?" And the electric guitar parts are different, especially at the end. Through the years (and with the help of this forum) I found that every CD version (DJM, MCA, MFSL) has the single-track vocal. It's surprising to hear of a DJM vinyl pressing with the "US" mix!

Check out "Country Comfort" as well for a different mix. The whole US mix sounds more compressed. Listen to the piano on "Talking Old Soldiers" and you'll hear the volume rise in between vocal passages. Truth be told, I've always liked that mix better, but that's probably because it's the one I grew up with.

 

I'm very confused!


I "had" the UK vinyl of "Tumbleweed Connection". I would have bought it early in 1974 - so it would have been the DJLPS version (don't know about stampers), and my copy had the regular UK mix!

I never heard the US mix of "Where To Now St Peter" until about 1980, when I picked up a Portuguese version!

My UK vinyl is long gone, but it would definitely had been DJLPS - becaue I knew all the catalogue numbers then (how sad).

So something seems wrong here.


Question: Why is the US mix different? Is it a mistake or intentional?

Could this have been the intended mix, and some early pressings slipped out before it was corrected?

Just speculation.

 

Could be. It just seems so strange that this would be the only UK copy with the double tracked "Where To..." that has ever been mentioned on the forum. Has anyone else seen a copy like this?

 

Here's what I have:

1. UK DJM LP (heavy red vinyl): Matrix side two: DJLPS 410 B2, Where To Now St. Peter? chorus double tracked.
2. UK DJM LP (thin black vinyl later pressing): Matrix side two: DJF 20410 B10, Where To Now St. Peter? chorus single tracked and CHANNELS REVERSED, channels on Love Song are the same for all three LPs.
3. US UNI LP: Matrix side two: 93096 B1 US 1193-1, Where To Now Now St. Peter? chorus double tracked same as 1.

The sound of the red vinyl UK (1) is clearly superior to the other two (2 and 3).

 

DJM DJLPS 410 was the original catalogue number.

I think later (around the early 80's) they changed such that "Tumbleweed Connection" became DJF 20410.

From what I remember the DJF's were single sleeve editions.

I thought the "channels reversed" problem was unique to the first issued CDs.

In my time, I had the DJM DJLPS 410 version (don't remember the vinyl being slightly red though) and the corresponding cassette. These definitely had the single tracked "Where To Now St Peter".

All very strange.

 

My DJLPS 410 vinyl looks black but if you put it against light you can see the vinyl is really dark red. It has the same matrix numbers as Jason's and thus has the same double tracked version he hears on his copy. Both of my copies DJLPS 410 and DJF 20410 have textured gate-fold covers with attached booklets.

 

I also own a UK DJM Tumbleweed DJLPS410-A1/B2 black vinyl with the double tracked chorus on St Peter.

Other markings in the dead wax are:
Side 1: 9 SMX37541 and a little 2 in front of that.
Side 2: 10 SMX37542 also with a small 2 preceding it.

I can't tell you much of it's history, I picked it up at a garage sale about 3 years ago along with UK copies of Madman and Honky Chateau. As far as I can determine all 3 are original, first release albums.

 

That one song has always driven me nuts on the CD, since I too am totally used to the US pressing. I always kind of hoped I'd find a digital copy of the (correct to me) doubletracked (and yes, the guitar at the end is different and their was a pop! right before the last verse that is missing as well)version so I guess now that won't be the case. Bummer.

 

Interesting. I don't have the SMX markings on mine.

So would it be fair to say that all ORIGINAL LP pressings of TC (US & UK) feature the double tracked "Where To..."? And then somehwere down the line they remixed it to the version on all the CDs (with the channels NOT reversed) for LATER UK LP issues, and then KEPT that same mix but reversed the channels (for the MCA, POLY and DJM CD issues?) I wouldn't know about the DJM CD issue, I don't own it). This is getting very convoluted.

 

Original DJM UK CD - "Love Song" - Elton on left, guitar on right!

 

I just checked against the light and my copy doesn't look red at all. But it does have the same matrix numbers as yours. Weird.

 

Now that I'm getting a handle on this, let's break it down:

1. UK DJM LP: DJLPS 410 A1/B2, double tracked "Where To Now St. Peter", textured cover, booklet attached. BLACK VINYL.

1a. UK DJM LP: DJLPS 410 A1/B2, double tracked "Where To Now St. Peter", textured cover, booklet attached. RED VINYL.

1b. UK DJM LP: DJLPS 410 A1/B2, double tracked "Where To Now St. Peter", Side 1: 9 SMX37541 and a little 2 in front of that. Side 2: 10 SMX37542 also with a small 2 preceding it (per Linus). BLACK VINYL.

1c. UK DJM LP: DJLPS 410 (stampers unknown: per Nobby), SINGLE TRACKED "Where To Now St. Peter", textured cover, booklet attached.

2: US UNI LP: 73096 US1192, double tracked "Where To Now St. Peter", textured cover, booklet NOT attached.

3: UK DJM LP: DJF 20410 Side 2: B10, SINGLE TRACKED "Where To Now St. Peter", CHANNELS REVERSED (but Love Song remains the same). THIN BLACK VINYL (Ben)

4: US MCA LP: probably same as Uni but thinner vinyl.

5: DJM CD: don't own, heard the Polydor is a clone of it?

6: MCA CD: DIDX-377 / MCAD-37199, Made in Japan, strange cover of Elton in portrait, SINGLE TRACKED "Where To Now St. Peter", CHANNELS REVERSED.

7: MFSL Ultradisc I & II CD: UDCD 543, SINGLE TRACKED "Where To Now St. Peter", CHANNELS CORRECTED for this release.

8. POLYDOR CD: 829 248-2, Made in USA, SINGLE TRACKED "Where To Now St. Peter", CHANNELS REVERSED.

9: ROCKET CD (Bleccch): TOTAL REMIX, pumped up bass, severe EQ changes, SINGLE TRACKED "Where To Now St. Peter".

10: ROCKET SACD: don't own, does the stereo layer use the remix?

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Please feel free to update and/or correct this list. I feel confident saying now that the DOUBLE TRACKED version of "Where To Now..." is part of the original UK mix and that it was changed somewhere down the line. Maybe in the US it probably stayed double tracked because they just forgot to send revised masters to the US (or didn't care)?

I'd like to know at which point in the run did they start using the SINGLE TRACKED version on the UK LP. Was it B3? Or after?

 

No SMX markings on mine. FWIW, matrix numbers on my DJLPS 410 are NOT machine pressed.

 

Same here.

BTW: Ben, maybe I'm just not looking at it right but my vinyl still looks black. Could it be red and I'm just not seeing it?

 

A little bit more on my copy:

Dead wax:
DJLPS410-A1/B2 - both stamped at the 6 o'clock position
Side 1: 9 SMX37541 and a little 2 - "hand written" at the 2 o'clock position.
Side 2: 10 SMX37542 also with a small 2 - also "hand written" at 2 o'clock.

Textured cover
Booklet attached (2 staples).
Gatefold sleeve, front pocket not sealed, (as per a double album).

How do I tell if the channels are reversed?
This is getting interesting.

 

I doubt it. The red translucent vinyl is similar to the old "Made in Japan by JVC" MFSL vinyl.
In any case, there are known A1/B2 black vinyl and also red vinyl versions of this record.

Read carefully this post by fraser:

http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showpost.php?p=732678&postcount=20

I can confirm, again, that my copy is red translucent (MFSL type) vinyl with A1 and B2 matrix numbers. Fraser is talking about an inferior A2/B2 translucent red (MFSL type) vinyl. IOW, he seems to be saying that A1/B2 are the matrix numbers to look for. I don't think the color of the vinyl would make much difference, but then again I have not compared them.