Joni Mitchell 'Ashamed' to Be in Music Business

[mikenyc]

Courtesy of yahoo.com...

Joni Mitchell 'Ashamed' to Be in Music Business
Mon Oct 14, 7:52 PM ET

LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - Hell hath no fury like Joni Mitchell (news) on the subject of the music industry.

The veteran singer/songwriter, on the promotional trail for a new album, says she is "ashamed" to be part of the music business and may stop recording.

"I just think it's a cesspool," the 58-year-old folk-rock icon said in the latest issue of Rolling Stone magazine.

"I hope it all goes down the crapper. I would never take another deal in the record business, which means I may not record again, or I have to figure out a way to sell over the Net or do something else. But I'll be damned if I'll line their pockets."

Oddly, Mitchell just signed a new deal with Nonesuch Records, which will release her new album, "Travelogue" in November. Mitchell was previously based at Reprise Records where her last few albums sold poorly but won several Grammy Awards. Both labels are units of AOL Time Warner Inc .

Mitchell also lambasted MTV, complaining that her three-year-old granddaughter is already grabbing her crotch and dancing, imitating the video clips played on the music cable network.

"It's tragic what MTV has done to the world," opined Mitchell, who was voted the fifth greatest woman in rock 'n' roll by MTV's sister channel VH1. Both networks are owned by Viacom Inc .

Once described by her friend David Crosby (news) as being "about as humble as Mussolini," Mitchell has previously described contemporary music as "appallingly sick ... boring chord movement and bad acting."

In holding up Bob Dylan (news) and herself as the standard for songwriting, she has written off devotees like Sting, Alanis Morissette (news) and Sheryl Crow (news).

Mitchell has also previously savaged her former label boss David Geffen for not paying her any royalties, although he has countered that her albums never sold enough copies to cover the advance payments that she received from him.

Born Roberta Joan Anderson in Canada, Mitchell has established herself as one of the most respected artists of her generation. Her eclectic career spans 35 years and includes such seminal albums as 1971's autobiographical "Blue" and the 1974 jazz-pop excursion "Court and Spark." She was inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in 1997.



http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=769&ncid=689&e=12&u=/nm/20021014/music_nm/leisure_mitchell_dc

[mikenyc]

Finally, someone has grasped the idea, that the internet is a viable alternative to the Music Companies.

[lennonfan]

She's absolutely right about MTV. A friend of mine said it best: MTV: Run by morons for 12 year old nitwits:laugh:
Joni comes from a more literate tradition and started her career in an era where much modern music actually -had something to say-. I don't blame her for being repulsed by MTV, only for being about 15 years too late;)

[Sckott]

MTV can do anything they want. The kids will watch. It will be cool. And no one will be able to question it.

Looks like "thinking for yourself" is a thing of the past.

[mikenyc]

What's interesting about the feelings expressed about MTV, is the irony that we all "forget", for a moment, as to just what Music is supposed to do...be totally radical, disruptive to the status quo, and pure anarchy.

We might as well be our parents, or our parent's parents, talking about Elvis Presley and T-Bone Walker in 1956 !

[Paul L.]

Mike,
That's *one* thing music can be. But it doesn't have to be that way. There's a lot more to music than rebellion.

[PsychFan]

And the minute someone's being/doing those things (radical, disruptive, etc.) just because they're "supposed to," it loses all meaning and significance. Wouldn't you say?

And the standards of those who buy and listen to pop music most (a.k.a., teens) have been slowly but systematically lowered since Elvis' emergence. I would say MTV has played a large part in that (especially in the last 10 years) ...

[Beagle]

Originally posted by Sckott
MTV can do anything they want. The kids will watch. It will be cool. And no one will be able to question it.

Looks like "thinking for yourself" is a thing of the past.

For kids who have been taught values and self-respect, brought up to know the difference between right and wrong, and are well-adjusted enough to "think for themselves", yes.

For kids who don't even know who or where their parents are, and have to (or are allowed to) make decisions and judgements basically by themselves from an early age, television and media are potentially very bad influences.

Mitchell also lambasted MTV, complaining that her three-year-old granddaughter is already grabbing her crotch and dancing, imitating the video clips played on the music cable network

I miss Nick Drake. And kids wanting Beatle haircuts seemed like such an innocent and harmless request, in retrospect.

[TommyTunes]

Originally posted by mikenyc
What's interesting about the feelings expressed about MTV, is the irony that we all "forget", for a moment, as to just what Music is supposed to do...be totally radical, disruptive to the status quo, and pure anarchy.


I agree! That's what R&R is about. Unfortunately that is not what MTV is about. MTV is about big business. They run more commercials than the networks. Their music videos are all clones. Can you really tell one Rap, Metal, Pop or Alternative band from the other?

"radical, disruptive to the status quo, and pure anarchy" yes these terms define both art and music. I'm not upset about what is see happening in music. I'm bored by it. Please someone tell me what's new about bands like The White Stripes, Stokes or Hives it's the same old boring rehashed 60's rock. Only this time there is no message.

We are in an era of turmoil, a potential war is on the horizon, a sniper is stalking the DC area, the economy is in the toilet, the joblessness rate is climbing and terrorists are killing innocent people. You would think that maybe this would give a creative spark to some young musicians?
After 9/11 last year the most of the older artists got together to raise money for the victims. Did you hear about any festivals put together by the current "new" artists to raise money? I didn't.

[pdenny]

Joni's on to something but it will fall on deaf ears. One of the greatest crimes of our society over the past 20 years or so is our apparent willingness to rip innocence away from our youngest ones.

Joni's comments aren't new; here she is from a couple of years ago:

"The music business makes me sick. Can you sit and enjoy any kind of music or awards shows? Where are the adults? Where is the class? This is whiners and screamers and screechers...they're all full of themselves over nothing, just like the scum that populates this business. I'm ashamed to be a part of it. I hate it with a passion."

[rjp]

MTV is pathetic.

[reidc]

Originally posted by rjp
MTV is pathetic.


Gee MTV-
Isn't that that station that shows young people living in groups for weeks at a time?

And I thought it was only about the music:confused:

[CM Wolff]

Although there is a time and place for righteous outspokeness about the music industry, Joni has gotten on that stump one too many times, to the point that he comes across to me as too much hot air, regardless of how valid her points may be. The music industry has always had its share of crap, but somehow still seems to produce worthwhile artists and work. Gain legal control of your own music, whether you are a giant like Springsteen or Van Morrison or on a more mortal level like Ani DeFranco, and then put out thoughtful, meaningful, and heartfelt music. It can be done with integrity. It will find an audience. Everything else that goes along with it, whether MTV, awards shows, crotch-grabbing, or the other things Joni is rallying about is meaningless in the long run. Work through it, don't waste time and energy rallying against it. That stuff is not even worth the effort that goes into building such righteous indignation.

Probably a naive opinion on my part, but...

[mikenyc]

I feel that Time is our biggest enemy...and NOT MTV...and that when some of us get older, mature and change, they lose touch with their youth and conveniently have short-memory, about when they were once young.

OK everyone...hands for those who were Grand Funk Railroad fans...and still are !

[Ben]

I love Grand Funk Railway....(inside joke)


I hate MTV - it positively bites the big one.



Ben

[czeskleba]

Originally posted by mikenyc
Mitchell also lambasted MTV, complaining that her three-year-old granddaughter is already grabbing her crotch and dancing, imitating the video clips played on the music cable network.


Okay, so it's MTV's fault that Joni's granddaughter grabs her crotch? Does anyone see a missing link in that chain of responsibility/blame? What kind of parent is letting a three-year-old watch MTV? If you give a toddler unrestricted access to television, you deserve what you get.

[Mike V]

Originally posted by mikenyc
What's interesting about the feelings expressed about MTV, is the irony that we all "forget", for a moment, as to just what Music is supposed to do...be totally radical, disruptive to the status quo, and pure anarchy.

We might as well be our parents, or our parent's parents, talking about Elvis Presley and T-Bone Walker in 1956 !

Radical disruptive music is the status quo. That's the problem. Execs think they can bottle & serve up $15 platters of rebellion at will and all the kiddies will bite. It ain't genuine, and most of it is lacking in talent and purpose. And when the angry rebellious "musicians" get their royalty check, suddenly they ain't so angry anymore.

[Dan C]

An artist like Aimee Mann can record and issue CDs on her own label. Mark Olson's "Creekdipper" CDs with his wife Victoria Williams is another example. They sell far fewer CDs but they make money.
I would bet that dozens of small labels like Bloodshot Records would love to sign Joni Mitchell. Her advance checks would be a lot smaller, but she'd get her records out there. My guess is she doesn't want to give up the cushy rock life just yet and that's why she signs away her rights to corporate labels. Either she gets the star treatment or she won't record.

As much as I'd like to agree with her thoughts, she still comes across as a bit hypocritical.
And yeah, czeskleba is right. Why the heck is a three-year-old watching such crap on TV?
Dan C

[grbl]

Originally posted by TommyTunes


I agree! That's what R&R is about. Unfortunately that is not what MTV is about. MTV is about big business. They run more commercials than the networks. Their music videos are all clones. Can you really tell one Rap, Metal, Pop or Alternative band from the other?

"radical, disruptive to the status quo, and pure anarchy" yes these terms define both art and music. I'm not upset about what is see happening in music. I'm bored by it. Please someone tell me what's new about bands like The White Stripes, Stokes or Hives it's the same old boring rehashed 60's rock. Only this time there is no message.

We are in an era of turmoil, a potential war is on the horizon, a sniper is stalking the DC area, the economy is in the toilet, the joblessness rate is climbing and terrorists are killing innocent people. You would think that maybe this would give a creative spark to some young musicians?
After 9/11 last year the most of the older artists got together to raise money for the victims. Did you hear about any festivals put together by the current "new" artists to raise money? I didn't.

I couldn't agreee more. MTV is about big business and big greed and prepackaged garbage. If it can make money off some half-naked gyrating 18 year-old bimbette with no musical talent, it will happily do so. This is what the music industry is all about.

[mikenyc]

MTV trivializes Music...but people who love Music, keep it alive...like all of us here !

[Mike V]

Originally posted by TommyTunes


We are in an era of turmoil, a potential war is on the horizon, a sniper is stalking the DC area, the economy is in the toilet, the joblessness rate is climbing and terrorists are killing innocent people. You would think that maybe this would give a creative spark to some young musicians?
After 9/11 last year the most of the older artists got together to raise money for the victims. Did you hear about any festivals put together by the current "new" artists to raise money? I didn't.

Tom, I'm afraid you've got this backwards. What makes you think talented young musicians are in any position to make themselves heard by a larger audience? The people in control are probably your agemates - they're the problem. Suits beating the dead horse until they bleed it dry. Meanwhile, unique new talent will never make it's way to your radio because of those who hold the pursestrings. Let's not blame this ugly scenario on today's youth - that's just plain false. As for the bands you mentioned, they aren't trying to be some poster boys for a new movement, but people like to set up straw men, so it's easy for you to knock them down. They're just playing music they like, it's resonating with some folks, get over it.

And how are you sure there are no festivals by new artists? They may not be able to do one on the scale of bigger artists, but are you absolutely certain that individual efforts are not being made by people who want to make a difference? I'm sure there's many of them out there - they just can't organize on the level (and get media support like) say, Springsteen or The Who or Billy Joel. So what, they're out there. 99% of the older artists rode the gravy train and still are on Classic rock AOR stations, yet they're not out there raising $$ for charity. Where's your beef with them? You've just got a bone to pick with youth, which is unfortunate, because there are millions of kids out there with a lot to offer the world.

[Grant]

Originally posted by lennonfan
She's absolutely right about MTV. A friend of mine said it best: MTV: Run by morons for 12 year old nitwits:laugh:
Joni comes from a more literate tradition and started her career in an era where much modern music actually -had something to say-. I don't blame her for being repulsed by MTV, only for being about 15 years too late;)


OK, let me get this all straingt:

So now we're all dumping on MTV. Few of you compliained back in the day when MTV was all rock music. Only when it started playing rap music did you all come out and start bashing it. Well, is it really MTV, or is it really RAP you have a problem with?

NOW, Joni Mitchell: She is from an older generation who's sensebilities are from the 50s, 60s, and 70s, and has not been able to relate to anything that the younger generation listens to. No one here would get a kick out of their granddaughter grabbing her crotch, but who lets the kid watch MTV in the first place? Joni's children! Where did they learn to let the three year-old watch MTV?

First she blasts the industry, says she won't sign another deal, then she turns around and signs a deal with essentially the same company worked for before.

[Michael]

Originally posted by Grant



OK, let me get this all straingt:

So now we're all dumping on MTV. Few of you compliained back in the day when MTV was all rock music. Only when it started playing rap music did you all come out and start bashing it. Well, is it really MTV, or is it really RAP you have a problem with?

NOW, Joni Mitchell: She is from an older generation who's sensebilities are from the 50s, 60s, and 70s, and has not been able to relate to anything that the younger generation listens to. No one here would get a kick out of their granddaughter grabbing her crotch, but who lets the kid watch MTV in the first place? Joni's children! Where did they learn to let the three year-old watch MTV?

First she blasts the industry, says she won't sign another deal, then she turns around and signs a deal with essentially the same company where worked for before.

Go Joni Go!..Go Joni Go! At least someone has the "balls" to state the case of the Music Biz....Hey in another couple of years her Grand Daughter will learn how to bring a gun to kindergarten and "Pop a Cap" In The Teachers ***! Well when they play RAP 99.99% of there playlist, It does get distressing? :)

[Mike V]

Originally posted by Grant


So now we're all dumping on MTV. Few of you compliained back in the day when MTV was all rock music. Only when it started playing rap music did you all come out and start bashing it. Well, is it really MTV, or is it really RAP you have a problem with?


Not true. They've become less and less music focused, and some of this may have coincided with the emergence of Rap into MTV's playlist. Have you watched "*******"? MTV is a POS.

Now, about Rap, I don't have a problem with the music, it's the imagery. The same tired themes over and over again. Bentleys all over the place, big *** houses, endless cash. Sometimes you can couple this imagery with a thug attitude, or even a somber "I have the world on a string, but my life is empty without you" ballad now & again. It's tiring, and it sets a very poor example for people that watch it IMO. Don't forget that this is the image that white corporate america has decided they want to cultivate & put out there for your consumption. Is that something you can approve of? Where's the Public Enemy style rap when we need it?

Sure, it's unsettling to me maybe, but at least I'll tell you so. And at least it means something!

[Grant]

Originally posted by Mike V


Not true. They've become less and less music focused, and some of this may have coincided with the emergence of Rap into MTV's playlist.This I can agree with. For over ten years it HAS been less about music.

Now, about Rap, I don't have a problem with the music, it's the imagery. The same tired themes over and over again. Bentleys all over the place, big *** houses, endless cash. Sometimes you can couple this imagery with a thug attitude, or even a somber "I have the world on a string, but my life is empty without you" ballad now & again. It's tiring, and it sets a very poor example for people that watch it IMO. Don't forget that this is the image that white corporate america has decided they want to cultivate & put out there for your consumption. Is that something you can approve of? Where's the Public Enemy style rap when we need it?

Sure, it's unsettling to me maybe, but at least I'll tell you so. And at least it means something!

Not to turn this into an MTV thread (maybe we should start one), but what about all the imagery that metal bands had? Scantilly-clad women with huge silicone breast implants putting on a show just for the guys wearing a bit too much rouge and eyeliner, skin-tight stretch pants showing off the package, and drinking a bottle of Jack? Would you rather your three-year-old granddaughter emulate those?

No difference, as far as I can see. You all still show a bias against rappers.