Has anyone bought both a SACD player AND a DVD-A player?

[Steve w]

I have a SACD player. I might get a DVD-A player too though because there are some great titles (Hotel California,Moondance, Rumors) either already out or soon being released on DVD-A. I do like SACD a lot. I can't wait to see what titles EMI and Universal release on SACD.

[GregM]

I also own an SACDP, and while I've heard a DVD-AP in my system and decided the format is better than CD, it does not hold a candle to SACD. I think it's clear that SACD is gaining ground in a way DVD-A is not. If we (collectively as consumers) choose to support both, we will send a mixed message to the industry that will effectively slow or compromise the acceptance of both formats. Since DVD-A and Warner support the use of the Verance watermark, which compromises audio quality, that's another factor that should make you happy to stick with SACD. Ride it out a while longer and maybe those DVD-A titles you like so much will appear on SACD. For example, Mikey Hart used DSD to remaster the American Beauty and Workingman's Dead tapes in preparing the DVD-A releases.

[lukpac]

I say support both...

Or forget both and stick with CDs.

[Paul C.]

If I had the money I'd buy one of each player (since universal players don't seem to be coming out). While I recognise SACD is better (only based on what I've read), I'd love to hear some of the stuff that's already out on DVD-A in better than CD quality (not that there's much of it). I can't see that buying a few DVD-A's is going to hurt SACD, and those that are on DVD-A are not going to come out on SACD in a hurry, given the slowness of big companies to jump on new bandwagons.

BTW, Billy Cobham's Spectrum is coming out on DVD-A - if I had the money, that would be enough for me to clinch the deal for a DVD-A player (but of course I'd get the SACD player first).

[bmoura]

Originally posted by GregM:
For example, Mikey Hart used DSD to remaster the American Beauty and Workingman's Dead tapes in preparing the DVD-A releases.

Hmm, that might explain why Hart was quoted in one of the Home Theater magazines as saying SACD versions of his remixes would be issued after the DVD-A versions. Interesting.

[Unknown]

Paul, as I already stated before on this board Pioneer will be releasing a new player shortly that will support both DVD-A and SACD multichannel.

In Europe it will go under the name 747A.
And it will cost 1500 Euro.

[TommyTunes]

I have both a scd-777ES and the Technics A10. SACD is clearly the winner in sound qualtity. I do enjoy multi-channel sound and therefore with the release of so many good titles in DVD-A, I found it a great addition. Also Sony has dropped the ball on releasing good Rock titles.

[Jeffrey]

Hi,

Which way to go is a real hard decision for me. There is no question that each format has some really great releases and SACD has superior sound. My concern is that history almost always repeats and usually only one format survives. The one that survives is not always the one with highest quality. All I have to do is look over at my Beta collection to know that quality may not be the deciding factor and if ya put alot of money in software ya may be sitting there one day wondering where the hell ya are gonna get the hardware to play it on.

The Music Never Stops,
Jeffrey

[TimM]

I support both formats, owning a Sony C333ES SACD player and a Panasonic RP91 DVD-A unit. I would not accept the statement that SACD is a clear winner in terms of sound quality. When done well, both are capable of stunning sound improvement compared to redbook CD's.

[RetroSmith]

Yes, BOTH formats are capable of stunning sound.

Personally, I favor DVD-A, because I like the surround sound mixes. You hear things on the multitracks that you never knew were there, and to me, it doesnt get better than that.

And combo SACD/DVD-A players are definetly coming. So if you havent bought anything yet, dont!!
Mikey

[PsychFan]

Originally posted by Mikey:
And combo SACD/DVD-A players are definetly coming. So if you havent bought anything yet, dont!!


I haven't, and I won't (yet)! I decided long ago to wait until the dust settles and either (a) one format emerges victorious, or (b) it becomes clear that both formats will coexist, with universal players becoming standard. I resigned myself to the fact that that might take at least a year or two (if it ever does happen!).

It's starting to look like (b) is what might happen, but I'm not buying yet. I can be a very patient person ...

[TimB]

While I do have a SACD player (Sony 5 disc scd-ce775), I cannot say that DVD-A is good bad or ? I have a MSB Link DAC III, with upsampling to 132Khz, and I have passed 24/96 from Classic DAD disc's to it. Both formats beat out red book cd, and I am sure 24/192 is beeter than 24/96. Supporting both, well I am not sure I will buy a DVD-A untill a btter quality one for under $1K is availble. AT this point, I have only seen mass market DVD-A, while Sony ES, Accupahse, Classe and others have some audiophile class systems availble. Even if you are not an audiophile, you need some better than mass market systems to fully exploit the virtues of SACD or DVD-A. I wish I could aford a better SACD player, but even at this point, it clearly shines above red book cd's. I am sure DVD-A could do just as well if no water marks were on them. If with the 24/192 stero, if they would at least pass 24/96 and put the water mark in remaining range above 96Khz, I would love even that. At least I could hear good quality on a outboard DAC! :confused:

[RetroSmith]

Hey Jeff...

you can , right now buy an APEX 7701 player that plays EVERYTHING. DVD-A, SACD, HDCD, MP#, ect. The price at J&R Music is an incredible 299$$ The problem is they are always out of stock!!

The merits of this player have been debated here on DCC for some time. Some feel that for 300 bucks, sound quality will not be equal to more expensive players.
I, personally agree that it may not be an audiophiles dream, BUT at that price point, you'ld be simply FOOLISH not to buy one and have a universal player that does everything. You can always take the digital output and run it thru your own converter if you desire. To me, its a no brainer.

Apex makes their equipment in China where manufacturing costs are dirt cheap, thats one reason why the price on this guy is so low. So, you may want to give it a try.

Regards,

Mike

[TimM]

I think the water marking issue is overated. Talk of it being audible or degrading the sound seems to be of little "real world" concern. I enjoy both formats but I have serious doubts if they will ever make it into the mainstream. I hope they survive somehow.

[GregM]

The Verance watermark has been described as midrange/treble "tizzy" sound that is difficult to ignore once you know what it sounds like.

If this isn't a real-world concern for music fans who are conscious of audio quality, I don't know what is.

[TimM]

I suppose my ignorance is bliss. I think both formats sound fantastic.

[Sckott]

Yeah. Both formats are great, but the flexibility of DVD-A, you can basically do anything with it, even with PC features if you really want nuts on your sundae.

I like the high-rez, both as DVD-A and normal DVD audio streams. I hope DTS stays strong on some DVDs. The DAD's on classic, as I sound like a broken record, are a nice idea.


I also say, if you're more set on one format, even before you buy the player, you might wanna grab some software that you don't want to miss out. Nothing seems to stay in print anymore.

[GregM]

Sckott, DVD-A is not more flexible than SACD. In the standards, SACD provides room in the outer layer for extra data, text, graphics and video. In fact, the only way DVD-A can compete is to do away with its highest-res capability (24/192) on all channels, so it is forced to use 24/96 or less on surround mixes. SACD is all-DSD, all the time and has a CD layer to boot (except on Sony releases thus far).

The fact that the DVD-A guys focused on aspects peripheral to audio proves nothing except that the format is more for HT buffs who want to navigate on-screen menus and view still images of the band as opposed to focusing strictly on the music. If there's really a market for that, SACD can accomodate, but methinks not.

[ December 05, 2001: Message edited by: GregM ]

[Gary]

Originally posted by Sckott:
I also say, if you're more set on one format, even before you buy the player, you might wanna grab some software that you don't want to miss out. Nothing seems to stay in print anymore.

A good point! I am grabbing DVDs and SACDs of my favorite titles. One day I may be able to play them, too.

...and frankly I am getting tired of all this SACD / DVD talk about the merits of each, what they can or cannot do, why they do what they do, why not, what is more versatile, two, five eight channel, popcorn maker included or not, text messaging, bright or blinking lights, lack of software.... yeeech!

Just show me amazing software, things I want to listen to, make more titles available and
darn it, I'll buy the dang player(s) - after multiple auditions with the competition, of course! !

Sorry - should have put a /rant disclaimer at the top of this (or is it called the text messaging header)? ;) Sheeesh!

[sgb]

Luke P wrote:

> I say support both...

> Or forget both and stick with CDs.

There's a lot of truth to this, Luke. Most can't hear the difference, and of that group, most couldn't care less.

But then, the truth is that in order to hear SACD as it should be heard, one needs to have an audio system capable of revealing the differences.

I own only an SACD player and have no interest in DVD-A, but I know at least one person who has both, and on those times when he and I have fiddled with comparisons, the SACD always got our preference.

On another note, I just received my Acoustic Sounds catalog which makes reference to the fact that DCC will not be releasing any more Gold CDs. Some might recall that I mentioned this some time ago when Music Direct made the same claim. So, what's the truth?

[Gary]

Steve Hoffman said, and I quote: "Anyway, I have a list of 20 Gold and vinyl titles to be repressed, but I don't want to post it because I don't want to jinx it."

Here is the link (hope it works).
http://cgi.dhot.com/cgi-bin/ubb_forums/dcc/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=3&t=000549

I'd think that we ought to believe Steve first over any catalogue, eBay seller, "nay" sayer or internet seller who is over charging on DCC titles, don't you think?

As for SACD, the Sony store I was in, when I was trying to audition a SACD player with an SACD in it, the salesperson said that it sounded just like a normal CD. Would not plug in the SACD player. And he said that's because of the non audiophile wires they were using.

Sounds like they are shooting themselves in the foot, don't you think?

Sorry, that just makes me totally unimpressed. :mad:

[Jeffrey]

Hi Gary,

Maybe you should be totally unimpressed w/ the store and not the product. Obviously, the store's personnel have issues but hard to say that about a product you have yet to experience.

Let It Rock,
Jeffrey

[Gary]

Jeffrey, I was not clear and you are correct. I AM impressed with the product (heard it in a non-Sony store!) and I have no qualms in buying a Sony product.

Perhaps I should say I am not impressed with that ONE salesperson! :D

[ December 06, 2001: Message edited by: Gary ]

[TimM]

Neither Sony or Warner should write a "how-to introduce a new format" book.

[Todd Fredericks]

Sometimes the weak link on the chain of a new or even an established format is the salesperson. I've heard so many rediculous statements from salespeople with the DVD format that I sometimes have to hold myself back from laughing (sometimes I chat to the customer when the salesperson isn't looking). Here are some salesperson/customer Q&A sessions I've over-heard:

Q: How do I get rid of those black bars?

A: Yes, they're terrible. There's a "widescreen" button (meant for 16x9 TV's) you can push in the menu to remove the black bars (and also make the film look like the planet of the stretched-head people).

Q: Can I hook it up to my TV like I do with the VCR?

A: You can hook it up for the picture but these DVD's have a special audio sound and you can only hear them if you buy a special receiver.

Q: What is a commentary track?

A: Commentary tracks are very useful. They are detailed instructions on how to use all the features in your DVD player.

Q: Can I make copies of a DVD for my friends/family?

A: Of course you can. You can hook it up to your VCR (I guess Macrovision went out of business) or you can use a CD-burner to copy it.

Q: I want a DVD player so I can watch my favorite movies. Do you sell "Raiders of the Lost Ark" or "Back to the Future"?

A: We normally do but we're out of stock on those titles right now. We should have them again next week.

Q: Can I play those new super audio CD's in this machine?

A: Yes, all DVD players play all of these formats. DVD players were designed to replace your CD player and be compatable with all the new formats. All the big companies have to follow the DVD guidlines.

Q: Can I record TV shows on DVD like I can with my VCR?

A: You can't with this model but in a few months an adapter will be coming out.

Q: I travel a lot. Can I buy DVD's in other countries like I do with CD's?

A: Yes, a DVD is a DVD.

Q: Do you have any idea of what you're talking about?

A: No, but I'm paid to act as if I do and also to intimidate you...

Todd