Universal players that decode HDCD?

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by dgstrat, Feb 21, 2006.

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  1. dgstrat

    dgstrat Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    West Islip, NY
    I've got a Pioneer Elite DV-59AVI which handles SACD and DVD Audio. I'd like to replace it with something as good, or better that also decodes HDCD. Any recommendations?
     
  2. Steve G

    Steve G Senior Member

    Location:
    los angeles
    Denon 2910 is, I believe, the most affordable option
     
  3. StyxCollector

    StyxCollector Man of Miracles

    Why not just get a reciever that decodes it if you like your current player?
     
  4. KeithH

    KeithH Success With Honor...then and now

    Location:
    Beaver Stadium
    That's a good suggestion unless he wants to route the universal player into a stereo pre-amp or integrated amp. I use my Denon DVD-2900 universal in a stereo system exclusively. Also, I have a Denon DVD-3800 DVD-Audio player and a Sony SCD-C555ES SACD/CD changer split between a home-theater system and stereo system since the home-theater receiver is not as good as I would like with stereo music. I can play HDCD-encoded discs on the '3800 through the stereo system if I desire the HDCD decoding.
     
  5. Tullman

    Tullman Senior Member

    Location:
    Boston MA
    I don't know if these are all universal, but these companies are supposed to offer HDCD in some of their units.

    - ARCAM
    - AUDIO PRO
    - CLASSÉ
    - DENON
    - HARMAN/KARDON
    - Hegel
    - LINN
    - MARANTZ
    - MARK LEVINSON
    - NAD
    - NAIM
    - ROTEL
    - SHANLING
    - THULE
    - Vincent
     
  6. JohnG

    JohnG PROG now in Dolby ATMOS!

    Location:
    Long Island NY
    The Denon 3910 also does HDCD.
     
  7. kdbrink

    kdbrink Forum Resident

    I love my Denon DVD-5900.
     
  8. SamS

    SamS Forum Legend

    Location:
    Texas
    Denon DVD-3910.

    I have both 3910 and DV-59AVi. What performance aspect are you looking to improve upon by upgrading?
     
  9. chargrove

    chargrove Forum Resident

    Location:
    Fort Worth, TX
    If my CD player does not decode HDCD, does the sound reproduction suffer in any way? Or is it normal and just "better" w/ HDCD decoding?
     
  10. SamS

    SamS Forum Legend

    Location:
    Texas
    That is my understanding. There's some folks around the 'net that feel that the HDCD encoding process actually 'worsens' the normal 16/44.1 sound. I have not ever found that to be the case. According to Steve, he uses a special HDCD decoder on the AF titles that causes no harm for regular redbook listeners.
     
  11. KeithH

    KeithH Success With Honor...then and now

    Location:
    Beaver Stadium
    Opinions vary on HDCD. Some love it, some don't. I think one's experience with HDCD, like anything else, is tied primarily to the mastering and the equipment. I've heard HDCD-encoded discs sound great on non-HDCD players and then heard them sound poor on HDCD players. I don't think there are any hard and fast rules. Look to the mastering and then look for the right player. The right player for your at your price point may not do HDCD.
     
  12. Tullman

    Tullman Senior Member

    Location:
    Boston MA
    Honestly, in my experience most HDCDs do suffer some loss when not decoded. I have some HDCDs that I thought sounded bad until I finally got a HDCD player, then they sounded great.

    However, Steve said that AF came up with a process that does not degrade the sound.
     
  13. Tullman

    Tullman Senior Member

    Location:
    Boston MA
    I totally disagree. Every HDCD disc I have sounds better decoded. Yeah, there is a hard and fast rule, if one plays a HDCD on the same player with the decoding on it will sound better than with the decoding off.

    HDCD ain't SACD or DVD-A, but it is a step up from standard redbook.
     
  14. detroit muscle

    detroit muscle MIA

    Location:
    UK
    I've been playing a new HDCD disc I just received on my Denon 3910. Sounds pretty darn good! It's by some group called Bad something or another.
     
  15. Tullman

    Tullman Senior Member

    Location:
    Boston MA
    Yeah, get a 3910 it plays everything and you can always get it modded.

    I really wish more players offered HDCD.
     
  16. SamS

    SamS Forum Legend

    Location:
    Texas
    Well, I can tell you this much. I have two players in my main system, and if I A/B identical copies of an HDCD (Steve's or otherwise), the sound is definitely better on my standard redbook player than my Denon 3910 which does HDCD.

    What I mean by this is that there are greater factors that determine how good a redbook/HDCD disc will sound than simply the decoding of the HDCD itself.
     
  17. Tullman

    Tullman Senior Member

    Location:
    Boston MA
    Yeah sure, My old redbook Krell would kill SACDs played on my pioneer. The reason your redbook player sounds better than the 3910 is because it is a better unit, DACS etc.... The only fair comparison is on a unit that has an on/off switch for HDCD. If I recall correctly, a member here did a comparison on a unit that could do just that.

    Question. Do you think Steve would bother with HDCD if it sounded worse than redbook?
     
  18. SamS

    SamS Forum Legend

    Location:
    Texas

    I'm not disagreeing with any of your points. I've just never seen or heard an HDCD machine where you could switch the decoding on/off so I could make a valid comparsion. As I understand it, the HDCD decodind is built into the DAC, so I'm still not sure how one would do a comparision.
     
  19. It's actually built into the digital filter. Pacific Microsonics used to manufacture the specific digital filter--they also owned the HDCD patents until they sold them to Microsoft. Now that Microsoft owns the HDCD intellectual property, I don't know who OEM's the digital filter hardware.
     
  20. Luke M

    Luke M New Member

    Location:
    Pittsburgh
    Just because a CD appears to be an HDCD does not mean it is degraded without decoding - because there may be nothing to decode (all the HDCD features are optional). People tend to assume that because the HDCD light comes on that there must be something going on. Nope.
     
  21. PMC7027

    PMC7027 Forum Hall Of Fame

    True, but why put the code in to "light the light" when not using any of the HDCD features?
     
  22. Tullman

    Tullman Senior Member

    Location:
    Boston MA
    :confused: :confused: :confused:
     
  23. Mick Jones

    Mick Jones Senior Member

    For an example see the section 'About HDCD' towards the bottom of this page.
     
  24. Tullman

    Tullman Senior Member

    Location:
    Boston MA
    "Where we use the Pacific Microsonics box just for re-dithering, as on Rejoice! Volume Three, we note it in the liner notes. Where the Pacific Microsonics box is the A to D, we use the logo, as on our re-mastering (with a new track added) of Ruggiero Ricci’s Paganiniana recital that was previously on Water Lily"

    This makes sense. Basically, it says that when HDCD is used for Analogue to Digital conversion a HDCD machine can decode the music to HDCD.

    When used for re-dithering it improves the sound but does not need to be decoded.

    "Another option, the one we chose for Music for a Glass Bead Game, is to take a hi-bit digital source, such as from a Nagra D, and use the Pacific Microsonics HDCD box only to re-dither it to 16 bits. This use of the Pacific Microsonics box puts the HDCD flag in the digital word that triggers the light to go on, on an HDCD-capable player or converter. But the light going on does not necessarily mean that the original recording was made using the Pacific Microsonics HDCD box as the analog to digital converter, or that processing was used to try to stretch dynamics beyond conventional 16-bit CDs."

    "I had used for editing and the final CDs with HDCD re-dithering. Both are 16 bits, but the re-dithering made a remarkable improvement in both liquidity and detail, making the recording both easier and more rewarding to listen into. Perhaps even moreso on an HDCD player. But I can’t figure out a scientifically valid way to test that!"


    Ok, this explains why the light would go on, when a cd isn't marked HDCD on the package. I wonder what process Steve is using.
     
  25. Mick Jones

    Mick Jones Senior Member

    I suspect that information would come under the heading of trade secret!
     
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