Any Suggestions for Vintage Speakers (Steve?)

[Jeffrey]

Hi,

Wanna score some vintage speakers and refurb them. Will be using them mostly for vinyl but some digital. Will use them in a mid-size room w/ a vintage amp/preamp (yet to be purchased, ideas?) Willing to pay $1,500-4,000 for the pair. Where would my $ be best spent.

Thanks,
Jeffrey

[Steve Hoffman]

Jeffery,

How vintage is vintage to you? I was talking to someone who was looking for some vintage gear, and I was a bit shocked to realize that they meant from the late 1970's. Eek. I guess that to a youngster, that was a loooong time ago, but sheesh. Why would someone want some stuff made THEN?

At any rate, how old is old to you? And, what SIZE are you talking about? I have a pair of AR3a's that are yummy for sale, but they don't need "re" anything. They work fine.

This can't be what you mean though. Old horn speakers? Also, that kind of money, you can buy some pretty good modern stuff.

So, please elaborate, and then the dudes who know stuff on the DCC Forum will be able to suggest some things for you!

[Gary]

That's a lot of $$$$$ for speakers that you'd have to refurbish, Jeffrey! Expect to spend less.

You really have to hear some stuff and decide what sound you like. I like KEF and Advent. I'm sure others don't like those two! I've heard ARs and I love them, too! I've just run out of room at home.... but I may pick some up someday (crazy I guess).



;)

[JohnnyK]

I have a pair of Acoustic Research AR 3a speakers that I purchased in 1974 (no, they are not for sale). These speakers are compact in size and are based upon speakers that were designed when tubes and vinyl was king. Their sealed acoustic suspension design and 12 inch (really 11” ;) woofers produce really good, well controlled, non-boomy bass. They have dome midrange drivers and dome tweeters. If you find a pair, I suggest that you check for woofer foam rot, blown midrange and tweeters and worn attenuation controls. I replaced my midrange and tweeters with drivers from Dynaudio.

If you can find a decent pair, give them a try. They definitely have a vintage sound. But be aware that the need a lot of power to sound good. Try this web site for more info on AR speakers and Advent speakers.
http://layneaudio.hypermart.net/AR.htm

Have fun.
:)

[JohnnyK]

Originally posted by Steve Hoffman:
Jeffery,

I have a pair of AR3a's that are yummy for sale, but they don't need "re" anything. They work fine.

!

Steve,

How do you like your AR3a speakers? Mine are over 25 years old and still sound great. Even though I replaced their midrange and tweeters with Dynaudio units, they still have that nice, smooth, laid-back vintage sound. Currently I am using them as subwoofers!!! They produce great bass.

[Steve Hoffman]

JohnnyK,

My AR3a's are from 1974 (bought new at Pacific Stereo). Took every red cent I had, plus a pair of year old JBL Century 100's to get those babies.

Mine still work great, all original insides, too! Problem is, they need a lot of power, and are VERY fragile. They can be blown too easily to be used as anythng other that background music for me. I've seen AR tweeters go up in puff of smoke when the sound gets above a certain level. And it don't take much, lemme tell ya!

Great detailed bass response and that natural sound that you just can't find any more. Too bad.

I remember the setup at the stereo store when I bought the AR's: There were about 30 pairs of different speakers for sale, all in stacks in front of me, with a switcher box to go back and forth between them. JBL's, Cerwin Vega, etc. I had brought with me some Led Zep LP's and a few other things to listen to in the speaker room. I noticed that hanging from the ceiling, actually BOLTED IN, were a pair of AR3a's. I asked the stereo dude: "How come you didn't play me those?"

He said that I wouldn't like them. Not with the Rock LP's I had. He said that they were the reference speakers for the store, and that they were always used to compare different speaker types, blah, blah.

Anyway, I played them and just LOVED the sound. I could clearly hear the bass moves on all of my records for the first time. No thumpy one note bass. I WAS HOOKED!

One last test. I ran home and brought a SPOKEN WORD LP back with me. Just a recording of Basil Rathbone reading some Edgar Allen Poe stories. I tried this disc with every speaker in the store, with the volume turned down far enough to be at the level of a real human voice. All sounded bad, until I tried the AR3a's. Now it sounded like Basil was right there in the room with me, reading from a book.

That's what I wanted: Something neutral, that would reproduce back whatever I fed it in an accurate manner.

Ah, those were the days. Cost me something like 400$ back in 1974. That was a LOT of money to a kid who still had to borrow Dad's car 'cause he couldn't afford his own!

;)

[Sckott]

Going out of your way might make you appreciate what you go for.

I went almost 80 miles out of my way to score a pair of what were supposed to be Acoustat 1+1's, free to whomever jumped first, and most locally. Luckilly, I was able to get there 1st and politely take these beasts off of a man's hands without living more than 100 miles away. These are Electrostatic speakers, bought for a LOT of money, used, but in totally great condition. Needed only some speaker cloth, if that. Moving costs for these speakers didn't make this guy excited at all, plus, he was buying new stuff every 4 years. Sound like anyone??

Well, I snarfed my dad's HUGE F--Ing GM truck and hauled it almost 55m north of Boston in a little 2 horse town, with nothing more than an email and a guys' address, hoping this wasn't a prank. I mean, I was asking a chap in a store for directions, and a train was passing through right where he was pointing straight ahead and I couldn't hear a thing he was saying. "Got wha' I'm saying there son?" Uh....yah. Thanks for the directions!!"

Found the apartment, GLAD I was early, because it was set back almost a 1/4 mile from the actual directions, knocked on the door, and there they were. They were 58" high, and about 28" wide. Me thinks they weren't 1+1, I thought (cuz them r' slim suckers, not 28"), but he even helped me put them in the truck. His place was so small, anything bigger than baby Advents looked like overkill. Minus the bathroom, you'd have to sleep in your own cornflakes, the place was tiny. Guy even had a Sony Betamax for some "home mastering".

Come to find out, these were **3's** with Mediallion upgraded transformers. Value was much higher in that respect. Big SHHWWING!! I had to totally revamp my playback chain, did a 360 to cater to Hafler SS monster output and the sound was AMAZING. You could walk right into a Reprise Sinatra record. Felt like that program, Quantum Leep, or something. How I got them into the condo without making trash out of my hardwood floors, I'll never know how I got the strength, but I think my voice went up an octive for a few hours.

Tubes or not, you will find that a deep, long search will yeild a lot of questions to yourself. Anyone remember the Luke/Headphone deabte? Listen to the speakers, your heart, and nobody else.

Also, for tubes, I will say whole-heartedly that you should never rule out DIY speakers with vintage design or thought, like the Pi's. Even if you take a year of listening to speakers, it CAN be like looking at cars or a house. It's the dedication, your ears, and wallet. You may enjoy speakers you'd never think you would. Open your mind, tackle the mountain, and fun fun fun. :p

(Some results may vary.)

[Jeffrey]

Hi,

Sorry for the lack of detail, letme try again. Started out in 81 w/ Advents (5002's me thinks) that were nice w/ bass but kept on blowin' the tweeters w/ Dead boots (they're still stashed in my closet). Then scored a pair of demo AR92's in '82 for $400. Nice speakers that were the heart of my system til foam rot in '98 (gave them away cause the ole' lady was bitchin' bout all the speakers in our place, bad call, thanks woman). Then setup a HT w/ $2,000 worth of Polk speakers that are OK w/ movies but weak w/ good ole' music. Now the plan is a good ole' 2 channel system in a backroom for just me & my tunes(no subs, no surround, no screens, etc.). After listenin' to some modern speakers, I really started missin' the AR92's. Then gotta thinkin' if the 20yr ole' speakers rang my bell howsabout some 30-40yr ole' ones. Bottomline, should I buy $1,500-$4,000 of vintage speakers (refurbin' if necessary) or modern ones?

As for size, logic tells me bigger is better. How do ya get killer bass from a wimpy cabinet?

Steve, ya mentioned that there is some pretty good modern stuff for that kinda $, please give me your recommendations.

Thanks guys,
Jeffrey

[lennonfan]

If you're looking for really big speakers, which I highly recommend, try Klipsch. I have the Electrovoice patricians, which are based on a Klipsch design, and they have a 22" woofer, mediocre midrange but were upgraded in the late 70's with a really nice midrange and supertweeter, I was offered $5k for 'em but wouldn't sell 'em in a million years...I'd never get another pair better IMO. Beautiful Mahogany cabinets 5 1/2 feet high, 40" wide, 29" deep, over 300 lbs. a piece! Now THATS sound!

[christopher]

i've had a pair od AR 10's that a friend gave to me when he moved to taiwan several years ago. they were in pretty rough shape, so i replaced the tweeters, mids, and woofers and i love 'em to death they sound so good.

later, chris

[Mal]

Quad ESL "57"'s. Since getting them I can't listen to any cone speakers without laughing :D .

[Dave]

I got a pair of Castle Accoustics model ConwayII just by looking in our local trading rag the buy&sell.

This elderly gentleman had no idea what he had. They are not as large as Sckotts or MalcS's, and perhaps not as vintage as you would like, but they really deliver a neutral sound and nothing that I've listened to so far compares.

All in all not bad for $250.00 Can. considering that they were selling $2,999.00 Can. at the same time.

So I guess all things being said I agree with what Sckott says in that the hunt is part of the thrill and eventually you'll get that great deal you're after.

Good luck Jeff. :D

[ December 13, 2001: Message edited by: Dave ]

[Jeffrey]

Hi,

Thanks, ya gave me some great ideas. Fun, fun, fun will be the theme. Will start scopin' the local trade rags to try to score the deal of a lifetime. Can really relate to Sckott's idea that ya may enjoy speakers ya never thought ya would cause the ESL's were never on my mind, til now.

Hey Steve, can ya give me some recommendations on modern stuff.
Originally posted by Steve Hoffman:
Also, that kind of money, you can buy some pretty good modern stuff.



Thanks again,
Jeffrey

[Steve Hoffman]

Jeffrey,

I really don't want to talk about current brands of speakers. Too much like a plug.

You have to go to your local high end stereo store and try a bunch out. You will know very quickly if there is a speaker that you like.

You will have to come back several times, with different types of music, to be sure. Even then, it's hard to say what stuff will sound like in your house.

I've seen people in stereo stores grooving to speakers that I think sounded terrible. But, they were happy, so who am I to say anything? To each his or her own!

I can tell you this: Common knowledge actually---I like big speakers. Many audiophiles I know listen to tiny two way's and are happy. I understand that. The human voice sounds wonderful on a pair of BBC L5/3's. BUT, to reproduce a big sound of a big orchestra, and not have it sound like Billy Barty is conducting, you need bigger speakers.... 'Nuff said.

[BradOlson]

That's right Steve, about anything, including speakers. To each his/her own. You are really adding more to my appreciation of high fidelity sound quality and music every day.

[Gary]

Originally posted by Steve Hoffman:
You will know very quickly if there is a speaker that you like.

And, may I add, you'll find out very quickly what speakers you dislike. I remember listening to $20K worth of Naim electronics and just hated the sound from the speakers. But it's very enjoyable hunting around for classic older stuff! I regularly go to three or 4 places to check out whats new. I've seen McIntosh amps, receivers, preamps, AR speakers, Boston Accoustics speakers, Fisher tube stuff, an 8B, KEF.... all sorts of stuff!

Have fun!

tube amp,
;)

[Ronald]

Try audioclassics.com (http://www.audioclassics.com). They have a lot of used gear.

There is a related web site Classicaudio.com (http://www.classicaudio.com) , but I know nothing about them.

[Ronald]

I really like my Vandersteen 2Ci speakers (1991 vintage), the version just before the latest 2Ce. The first-order crossovers between the drivers are very seamless. The 2Ce supposedly has the same midrange used in the upper scale Model 3. For my listening room size (living room), the Model 3 would be overwhelming.

The prices are around $1000 used or $1595 new. The sound is very natural and there is good bass response. Some people think the sound is kind of warm, i.e., not enough sizzle, but because I find that many recordings suffer from boosted upper midrange and beyond, the speakers seem to be perfect for me.

Try Audioweb.com (http://www.audioweb.com) in the classified to find prices of used gear. Audioclassics.com (http://www.audioclassics.com ) is on the high side, but their gear is guaranteed.