Question about Legacy Focus crossovers

[Dean De Furia]

I've had Focus's for about 8 years and wouldn't trade them for anything. Steve said his has custom crossovers in them. Does anyone know what they are and what improvements I could get by useing them? Thanks!

[Steve Hoffman]

Keep your speakers stock, they work best that way.

I need a "switch" on my crossovers for something unrelated to sound playback.

In fact, Dean, the older Focus crossovers are the ones I prefer.

So, if you've had yours for 8 years, that's right in the ballpark of the most "tuneful" batch!

[Dean De Furia]

Steve, Thanks! that's one less thing I have to "think" about! I'll just keep enjoying them asis.

[Steve Hoffman]

Dean,

Any thoughts for me on what you like about the Focus speakers in general?

Just curious.

[Larry]

Steve, I have had my Legacy Focus's since 96 or 97. I hate to sound like an ad from a Legacy review, but, for me it is the stunning midrange and the clarity. On top of this you get that tremendous dynamic range. Almost everybody that has listened to my system has echoed these comments! Even my tone deaf father thought Buddy Holly sounded great through these (Steve's FTOMT of coarse :D ). I totally agree with Dean that I would not trade these for anything. On top of everything else, they are just plain fun to listen to. What more needs to be said.

[Dean De Furia]

Steve, What I like about them is that they are like a "window" to the source that I am listening to. They are very revealing so if it's a bad recording, it will sound BAD. But if it's great, WOW! This is one speaker you will not find the need for a subwoofer. Three 12" per side can really be dynamic when need be. MJ "Billy Jean" on SACD, man hold on to the nick-nacks! But they can also be subtle: the first opening guitar chords of "Roundabout", it's like he is right in the room with you. FTOMT Buddy Holly; the last two songs on stereo; I can listen to them in a loop for an hour!
Yeah they are BIG and have little wife Accpt. factor but when it's right even she stops and listens!

[Ronald]

The Focus speakers (Foci?) are big speakers. What size rooms do you listeners use them in? Can one use the Foci in an average sized listening room? I am assuming an average sized listening room is one with an eight foot ceiling and lengths and widths under 20 feet. I find larger speakers need a lot of room to breathe.

I would like to replace my 11 year old Vandersteen 2Ci speakers with a a newer speaker with better lower bass. I like the Vandersteen's overall; however, there are no Vandersteen dealers near where I live so that rules out the Model 3 version.

I am not much of an add-on subwoofer fan to music only systems because I believe a well-built speaker will perform well in the lower registers. Besides, no matter how much competing brands claim the subwoofer will integrate perfectly, I have never found that to be the case with long term listening. I find the fifth wheel subwoofer is like company. Yeah it's fun at first; however, I can't wait for it to leave after the second week. Subs are great for movies, but in my opinion, they just don't seem right with music.

Active crossovers bring their own sonic destruction as well. To my ears, there always seems to be a phase related sonic degradation with the extreme order (24 dB per octave) active crossovers.

[Steve Hoffman]

I use mine in a very small room and listen practically mid field. It works. They work best in bigger rooms though.

I have to 1/3 octave eq the bass correctly; too overpowering in my rather small mastering room.....

[Dean De Furia]

Ron, My room is about 20' x 25'. I used to have them in a smaller room but the bass was too much. They work perfectly in my room. They are also not as sensitive to near-wall placement as some speakers. I have them about 18" out from the back wall and I don't find any problems with muddy bass.
These things kick some serious butt. In fact, some day I'm going to get another pair to put in the rear for multichannel music. THAT should be interesting!!

[Larry]

Ron, my room is 32' x 24'. I too have had them in a small room with no problems. Mine are placed about 32" from the back wall.

Dean, WOW, four Focus's in your setup would be unbeleivable or complete power lust, I'm not sure which.

[Dean De Furia]

Larry, I think a little of both! I would love to hear some really good multichannel stuff with them!( I one of those who likes things going on in all the channels)

One thing I would like to add: I've had countless amp/preamp combos with these over the years but I fell in love with them 6 years AFTER I had them when I connected them with some tube equipment. I wouldn't be surprised if they were designed from the start with tubes in mind. At 98db they are very efficient. They just sing with tubes! I've had both vintage Harmon Kardon Citation II amps and the newer Cary V-12 and both sounded fantastic with the Focus'. I encourage anyone considering these to audition with some tube equipment, if possible.

[Ronald]

Thanks for your responses! With such high efficiency (98 dB!), I guess any high current amp will drive them, so I can see why tubes work so well. I see that Legacy no longer ships factory direct, so I will have to track down a dealer to give the speakers a listen.

BTW, I wonder what has happened to speakers with big woofers? Most of the loudspeakers I see these days have small woofers (eight inches diameter or smaller). I may be cynical, but manufacturers may be looking to sell active subwoofers to these buyers. I remember when you could get Acoustic Research, Electrovoice or JBL speakers with 15 inch woofers! Not any more.
I don't think imaging is as important as ultimate slam and sound! I remember going to stadium rock concerts and the rarified air of heavy music was fantastic. Sorry folks, that isn't going to happen with a $2300 Thiel 1.6 with its 6.5 inch midwoofer.
Even when I go to a symphony, I am not looking to figure out where the viola section is. I just close my eyes and enjoy the music.
A tympani just doesn't sound real on a $6000 Sonus Faber Electa Amator II with its 6.5 inch woofer and drone cone.

When buying musical gear, I think that word of mouth plays a better role than magazine reviews. I am kind of leary of magazine reviews these days as I kind of wonder what happens to the review equipment at the end of the day. At least with word of mouth, someone has spent the time and money looking into the hardware.

[Steve Hoffman]

Not to put a damper on enthusiasm for the Focus speakers, but please note that the electronics have been "upgraded" on these speakers over the years. Some of the newer versions sound a bit "bright" to me.

So, audition carefully!

[Ronald]

Hmm... Bright is bad. Sizzle is is not my cup of tea. I don't like it when crash cymbals sound like freshly imploded television picture tubes (post pop of course). That is one thing I really like about the Vandersteens. They cannot be accused of having the upper end rise.

I'll keep an ear out for it.

[Dean De Furia]

I have the older version of the Focus' and they do not sound bright in any way. They are very smooth from the low to the upper octaves. I wasn't aware that they changed the design. I guess used ones are the ticket!

[Larry Johnson]

I've had a pair of Focus speakers for 3 years. I absolutely love 'em and would never consider trading them. My room is 13x30x7 and I use a Cinepro 1K2SE amp. The combination of the Focus and the 3dB peak headroom on the amp produces vivid dynamic range and a visceral sensation even at low volume. The woofers are capable of pushing some major air producing amazing bass, which smaller drivers cannot do. The Focus sound good on all types of music. They are very transparent - hooray for SACD. When I first brought these home I thought they were a little bright, but I think it was my room. I constructed and hung some fiberglass sound absorbers which eliminated the brightness.

The idea of using tubes is intriguing. I'd always thought that the speakers were designed to be mated with solid state gear, but after what Dean has said I might have to think about giving tubes a try. Have others mated Focus and tubes?

[Steve Hoffman]

Tubes? As far as I'm concerned, the Focus speakers sound the best with tubes, even though the designer loves solid state gear.

I use these:

http://www.symposiumusa.com/MonRoom1.html

The Focus speakers you can just see in the upper corners of the picture.

[Larry Johnson]

Originally posted by Steve Hoffman
Tubes? As far as I'm concerned, the Focus speakers sound the best with tubes, even though the designer loves solid state gear.

I use these:

http://www.symposiumusa.com/MonRoom1.html

The Focus speakers you can just see in the upper corners of the picture.


The Focus speakers sound best with tubes? That cinches it. I'll be auditioning tube gear in the near future. Thanks Steve, both for the tip, this Forum, and your attention to it.

[Steve Hoffman]

You're welcome, Larry.

Remember, the Legacy Focus speakers are around 98 db efficient!

That means that you can take ONE watt of power and get 98 decibels of sound out of it.

So, a lower power tube amp could work just fine.

[Larry]

I guess I have bucked the trend. For various reasons, I sold all of my tube gear about two years ago and went back to solid state. The tube gear I had, made by Audio Research, was great when it worked. I am currently driving the Focus's with a Krell FPB 600c. Yes its big, heavy, and way overpriced for what it is, but, it is by far the best amplifier for the Focus's that I have had in my system. (Once in a while, you get lucky by watching E-Bay :D ) My old standby, a Carver 1.5t also did an excellent job with the Legacy's. I think any high current amplifier of decent build would be a great pairing with the Focus's. I think the solid state vs. tubes debate sometimes gets overblown and way to personal. I for one have found enjoyment on both sides of the fence.

[Steve Hoffman]

Much better bass control with the Solid State amp I'm sure.

But, that liquid midrange and fluid overall tonality, that's a Tube system.

Just my opinion of course.

For a while, I wanted BOTH and I tried to bi-amp the speakers with Solid State on the bottom and Tubes on top.

Didn't work. Never integrated seamlessly.

[Larry]

Steve, you are right about the midrange! I tried the bi-amp route too with no success.

[Steve Hoffman]

Yeah,

There was a hole at the crossover point big enough to drive a truck through.

I gave it the old college try though....:(

[Larry]

I think my hole was closer to being crator sized. I was so shocked, I was sure I did not have something wired up correctly

[Steve Hoffman]

:laugh:

Yeah, that experience cured me of the bi-amping bug forever!