SACD sound quality question

[Tony Caldwell]

Hi,

I know many of you have "taken the plunge" into the world of SACD.

I have a question or two...

First, I need to say that I am currently listening to a setup with a cd player output via digital coax to a DAC. I have about $1100 invested in my DAC, which was well worth the $$, in my opinion. I noticed a big improvement from any "on board" DAC that I had heard.

OK, now my questions...

I understand that there is no way for someone to answer with exact specifications but I would like to know, based on your experiences...

1) If I buy a $300 SACD player, is it really going to sound better than my current setup (cd player)?? If so, how much improvement can I expect??

2) Do any of the SACD players (lets say under $500) do all of the following:
a) have a digital coax output for the "CD layer playback"
b) say I want to hear the CD layer of a dual layer SACD, can I "select" this option somehow, or will it always default to play the SACD layer?
c) play CDRs
d) play DVDs
e) brown the food

Wait a minute, (e) would be a microwave so scratch that one.

I would appreciate any help that I can get. I am hoping to get SACD compliant by Christmas time. (Lord willing and the creeks don't rise)

Tony

[Tony Caldwell]

Sorry God,

I meant to post this in "Hardware".

Tony:o

[Paul C.]

Tony, I have just been through these deliberations, and today purchased a player that handles SACD and CD as well as DVD-video - the newly available Sony DVP-NS905V (at least here in Australia). I don't know whether that model is available in the US, but I think it is in the UK, with different video connections. This player I believe is a successor to the NS500 and NS700 combo SACD/DVD players, and I have read the view that it can also be regarded as a scaled down NS900V - although the price level suggests that it is more the former.

The 905 does have a digital coax out - but as I use only analog outs, I am not yet sure if the digital coax output can be used for CD output as well as DVD sound - but I have a feeling it can.

As to whether a cheap SACD player such as the above will sound better than your CD player setup - I suspect that CD playback on your system with outboard DAC will better the CD playback on the cheap SACD player by a good margin. However, it may be a different story with SACD - I just don't have enough expereince with SACD vs top end CD players to know.

Just last night I was reading early reviews (from 1999) of the SCD-1 SACD player from the venerable Hi-Fi News and Record Review (UK) - it was very interesting to read what the first impressions of SACD were compared to high-end CD playback. All reviewers felt that SACD was qualitatively different from CD. More spatial, better separation of instrumentsd, smoother top end, and much more substantial bass (although not all were agreed on these points). A couple commented on the CD playback being the equal of much more expensive CD players. Of course the SCD-1 is way more expensive than $300, and was almost a prototype when reviewed.

On the Sony combo DVD/SACD players, converting between SACD and CD layer on a disc is done via a button on the remote. Another button switches between stereo and multichannel.

The 905V does play back CD-Rs - I think some of the previous Sony DVD players had a bit of difficulty with some CD-Rs, but I've read that that is less of an issue now.

Hope this helps.

[Tony Caldwell]

Thank you Paul! I have a place to start now...

I doubt that it will be long before I can't stand the wait!!

Take care,

Tony

[Jamie Tate]

Hey Tony,

I had several chances to listen to CD v. SACD on systems whose cost rivals that of my yearly income. With good source material the results are usually the same, no matter how good PCM audio is the DSD version is better. Now for your situation. I have listened to great CDs through great converters yet still hear improvements in imaging and general clarity when listening to the SACD version on my $150 Sony SACD player. The top end of PCM hasn't sounded right to me since I heard the difference in the two formats.

[Gary]

I believe that if you have a digital coax output for the CD layer playback, you can run that through your outboard DAC. So the SACD player will act as a transport only.

This could be my eventual CD set up!

[Richard Feirstein]

I have used an SCD-1 and a 500V. I find that the CD analog output from both sounds just a bit better to my ears than the DAC in my Denon 3802 receiver. This DAC is highly regarded. I am shocked at how good the 500V sounds. I expect that the 905 has better bass management and perhaps SACD timing alignment adjustments; is that true?

[SVL]

Originally posted by Paul Christie
The 905 does have a digital coax out - but as I use only analog outs, I am not yet sure if the digital coax output can be used for CD output as well as DVD sound - but I have a feeling it can.



It should be able to play CDs via coax, you would only need to set up the player to output PCM signal through digital out. That is what 900V would let you do, anyway.

Again, don't know about the 905, but 900 can handle CD-Rs and RWs just fine, and even comes with CD-Text, though it will only show you artist/album, not individual track names.

[Paul C.]

Richard, I don't know about the bass management functions and timing alignment adjustments on the 905 - I am still getting to know it's capabilities, and I don't fully understand what these functions you mention are for yet. And I don't have any other SACD to compare with.

Having said that, I have been very pleasantly surprised at the quality of CD playback on the 905 - it beast my old Sony CDP-991 (about 10 years old) hands down. Much better fuller bass, and a more open and lively sound. The top end is fairly prominent, but is not harsh in the way that older players can be. The CD playback seems to remain under control when the music gets a bit loud and frenzied, unlike my older player, which tended to turn things a bit flat and messy.

I compared the CD and SACD layers on three hybrids that I have, including Tubular Bells, Rubycon and the Mofi Blues in Orbit. I was drawn into the sound of Rubycon - the SACD layer revealed all the wonderful textures of the synthesised sounds, and just sounded very listenable. The Blues in Orbit on SACD was magnificent- the CD layer sounds terrific, and everything is there, but the SACD is more detailed and sounds less overcrowded at times. Cymbals sound clear without being tinny. Everything just sound more distinct compared to the CD layer. I am sold on it on the basis of this disc alone.

It will be interesting to see how things go when the machine is well and truly burnt in.

The 905 is nicely built too, and looks fantastic. Sony have done a nice job with the design of their QS series. The SCD770 and 780 SACD (non-DVD)are also in this series, and have a similar look. I suspect their SACD playback would be a bit better than the 905.

[Gardo]

Paul--

How did the SACD layer of Tubular Bells sound--quad or 2-channel, but especialy the latter? I'm on the prowl for that one.

Gardo

[Gary]

Gardo, Tubular Bells is amazing! It's one of my favorite albums, too!

I can only listen to it in 2 channel but I am sure that multi is OK too!

I believe it was done by Simon Heyworth, who is - apparently - one of the best mastering engineers in Europe. He also did Tangerine Dream / Rubycon. I love them both!!!

[Gardo]

Excellent news, Gary. I love the job Heyworth did with the 25th anniversary remaster of Tubular Bells, so I really can't wait to hear the SACD. I wish they'd do an SACD of Hergest Ridge and (especially) Ommadawn as well.

Gardo

[Paul C.]

Gardo - Haven't had a chance to give Tubular Bells a really good listen. But the SACD layer does sound beautiful, a bit smoother than the CD layer. CD layer still sounds pretty good though.

[LeeS]

I also have and enjoy Tubular Bells. The sonics are good but the newer Super Audio releases are sounding even better.

My view is that the introduction of better workstations and Ed Meitner's latest generation converters are really improving the sonics with each new release. The APO releases like Saxophone Colossus are just amazing and APO has 7 more due up, now that the Stones production bottleneck has lifted.

Super Audio is really getting traction and that makes me happy. :)

[Richard Feirstein]

SACD is good for the economy; I need to second job to feed my player.

Richard.