Multi-channel SACD connection

[pjrashid]

I'm considering diving into multi-channel SACD. I noticed that the multi-channel SACD players, such as the Sony SCD-777ES, have a 5.1 channel output and a 2-channel analog output and digital cd outputs (coaxial and optical).

This may be a stupid question, but where would I plug the 6 cables from the 5.1 channel output?:confused: My Sony ES A/V receiver doesn't seem to have inputs for the 5.1 output from the SACD player. I do have a plug in my receiver for the digital optical cd output, but that is 2-channel, isn't it?

Any answer to this stupid question is appreciated...thanks!!

:D

[stereo71]

You'll need an amp with analog inputs for the surround
channels--wish I could name names or models, but I haven't
searched this out yet. I'm still stuck in 2-channel mode!
One thing to check out here--be sure you get a receiver
or amp that will keep the signals pure analog, that is
does not convert them to digital for DSP and then back
to analog for speaker output, or you'll loose the advantage
of DSD resolution. The digital out on SACD players is
PCM only, that is redbook CD.

--Roger

[Sckott]

My theatre setup employs 4 different amps for 5.1 seperately. Lots of control and power, but it ain't simple.

[Gary]

How do you control volume, Sckott? A passive preamp? An equalizer?

For rear (smaller speakers as I have no room for large speakers) and sub (if I get one) I'm thinking of going source (Sony 775) >> equalizer >> amps >> speakers. Not sure if the signal from the 775 is strong enough for the EQ to play with, though....

[pjrashid]

Roger,

I do have an input on my A/V receiver for an optical input from a cd source. That would work for the 2ch digital out from the SACD player.

I currently use a digital out from my DVD player and somehow the receiver auto-formats this signal to 5.1. Would this work the same from the SACD player and auto-format the digital out from the SACD to 5.1? I would guess probably not...in which case multi-channel SACD forces me into buying a different receiver with 5.1 input...ugh!!

[Sckott]

Originally posted by Gary
How do you control volume, Sckott? A passive preamp? An equalizer?

For rear (smaller speakers as I have no room for large speakers) and sub (if I get one) I'm thinking of going source (Sony 775) >> equalizer >> amps >> speakers. Not sure if the signal from the 775 is strong enough for the EQ to play with, though....

I use a Rotel Theatre Preamp. I'm pretty sure it's the RTC-965, as I'm just coming awake for the day. Just hook up your amps, and the sucker controlls everything, and does the automatic DD, DTS (through optical or coax), matrix Dolby and even DSP's if you want (I've never wanted my talk radio shows in surround, but there you go).

Stuff (everything)
|
Rotel Preamp
|
Amplified sub, Hafler 300w amp, Dynaco ST70, Fostex mono 60w SS
.................................|...... ...........................|............ ......................|
........................Acoustat 3's..........B.A. shelf surrounds.......Single DIY Center


That's basically it....

[Gary]

Thanks Sckott. Sometimes I think that guitar lessons and DIY music would be cheaper and easier to do, understand..... etc.

[Richard Feirstein]

You would use the digital output of the SACD player to output Red Book conventional stereo CD audio to your receiver. Or you could use the digital to analogue converter in the SACD player to output stereo Red Book audio and Stereo SACD to your receiver. You can't use the 5.1 multi-channel output of an SACD disk unless you have 5.1 analogue inputs on your receiver.

[stereo71]

Originally posted by pjrashid
Roger,

I do have an input on my A/V receiver for an optical input from a cd source. That would work for the 2ch digital out from the SACD player.

I currently use a digital out from my DVD player and somehow the receiver auto-formats this signal to 5.1. Would this work the same from the SACD player and auto-format the digital out from the SACD to 5.1? I would guess probably not...in which case multi-channel SACD forces me into buying a different receiver with 5.1 input...ugh!!

Yeah, as I understand it, the only digital output you're allowed
to have from a SACD player is the regular old PCM 44.1K redbook
CD stream. For now, probably due to copy-protection issues, we
have no access to the DSD used internally. The digital out on
a SACD player is inactive when playing a SACD disc--it only has
signal present when a regular CD is played.

The other issue with SACD amplification to speakers, and the reason
for my caution about all-analog signal path in the receiver/amp,
is that you can only expect to hear the benefit of the high-res
format by keeping it away from A-D converters after it leaves
the player. For two channel operation you obviously only need
a good quality amp of almost any vintage, and a pair of speakers
you feel sound good in your situation. For surround, you could
simply add a second amp and another pair of speakers--forgetting
for a moment about the center channel and sub. Most suggested
surround setups for audio quality listening (that is, non-home
theater design) specify 5 identical drivers, arranged in an
equidistant pattern around the listener. Check out the Telarc
website for a better explanation than I can give here--the point
is, the rear channels may be more than just fill-in ambiance,
as in home theater, and full range equally powered drivers are
the ticket to getting what the engineers put into the program.

I know there are some surround amps out there that can do 5.1 in
analog mode--I just haven't taken the time (or succumbed to the
temptation) to seek them out. I like Sckott's idea of surround--
and I did try something similar in experimenting with DVD-A,
because I have all this stereo stuff from the 70s and early 80s
lying around taking up space. Five Large Advents, 2 Sansui amps
from back when they were worth a damn, and a mono tube amp for
the center channel...it was fun, but a bit impractical, not to
mention hard to control. I took it down after a couple of days,
and went back to 2-channel. I'm used to it by now! And the
setup is not nearly as space-consuming (higher WAF and all that).

Best of luck! Let us know how you make out.

--Roger

[stereo71]

All, I apologize for the previous crappy-looking
post--It's just that I don't use M$ internet
exploder, and unfortunately Netscape doesn't
behave like it should when posting on some
boards...anybody know the cure? As long as
it isn't M$ I'll try it...

--Roger

[Paul C.]

Hey Roger,

Your experiments with surround sound interesting. I used to have a Sansui amp, and it was a damn fine unit (inherited it from my father). I think it was a mid-70s model. I also had a Sansui turntable, which was a top of the range model, again from the 70s, another hand-me-down from my dad - I had that until I inherited his wonderful VPI turntable.

It's hard to part with some of that high quality stuff from years gone by.

[RetroSmith]

>>>Can anyone provide make and model #ss for 5.1 recievers with 5.1 Analog inputs for SACD/DVD-A?

Someone told me there are a couple in the $200 range that got good reviews....

[Gardo]

The Panasonic SA-HE100 got a very favorable notice in Sound & Vision a month or so ago. It's 100Wx6, with analog 5.1 ins as well as a DD/DTS decoder. It's even got DPLII. The tuner is supposedly lousy, but that's not of much concern to me.

Yes, I know that S&V is not an audiophile magazine. I know that some of the reviewers aren't very useful. But--the Panasonic is 300.00 (list), AND its electronics measure very well in terms of noise, linearity, power supply, etc. Who knows what it actually sounds like? But the price is right and it might be worth a listen.

Gardo

[BeatleFred]

Paul- I am a HUGE vintage Sansui enthusiast. So its nice to hear you mentioning them. When it comes to amps & receivers, for me- Vintage 70's hi fi is where its at. Not into all the cheap black plastic thats being made nowadays- aka- the a/v receiver. For the Real Deal, its amps like the Sansui AU-717, AU-20000, AU-919, AU-D11, and AU-X1 from 1975-1982.
As for Sansui Receivers: the 9090DB, 8080, 7070...Line of 1976/77 and the G Series "Pure Power" models of 1978-80 were awesome. Come by and visit www.audiokarma.org sometime where us Vintage hi fi enthusiasts hang out.

Regards, B/F.

[Paul C.]

Thanks B/F - nice to know that people out there still treasure that stuff. I wish I still had that Sansui amp....

[Gary]

Hmmm, had an idea. Maybe a Brilliant idea!

There is a place 'round here that sells used audio equip. Cheap. Like $50.00 a receiver. I'm sure they have '70's era Sansui as well as Technics, Pioneer, JVC, Toshiba, etc.

BeatleFred, thanks for the inspiration. Some of that classic '70's stuff would be excellent for surround! A receiver for rear speakers, another for sub~woofer and the 6.1 (sixth speaker)!! :)

That would work, would it not!?!?! Give me lots of versatility? Plug in the rear SACD outputs to the receiver and control them from the receiver or amp?

:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

This way, I still keep my vintage 2 channel stereo as front speakers!

YYYEEEAAAAA-HHHHHAAAWWWWWWW!!!

:D

[pjrashid]

Thanks for all the help.

If the digital output from the SACD is 2channel only, then I've come to the realization that my old A/V receiver will not provide the multi-channel SACD experience.

A quick search on Sony's website popped up this receiver for 400 bucks for accepting the 5.1 analog outputs:


http://www.sonystyle.com/home/item.jsp?hierc=9686x8642x5051x8709&catid=8709&itemid=37630&telesale=null&hidden=null&cps=null&type=o

I'm sure there are going to be many more models with 5.1 input, so I'll just wait a few to see what develops. For now, I'll just check out the PCM layer on the hybrid SACDs.

:D

[RetroSmith]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Gardo
[B]The Panasonic SA-HE100 got a very favorable notice in Sound & Vision a month or so ago. It's 100Wx6, with analog 5.1 ins as well as a DD/DTS decoder. It's even got DPLII. The tuner is supposedly lousy, but that's not of much concern to me.



>>>Hey Gardo...thanks for the reply!!! I think I actually read that review, I just forgot that the HE-100 had analog 5.1 inputs!!

I may very well go that route. I'd like to wait a few weeks and see what else gets introduced tho. With Home Theatre the big thing right now, I expect a whole bunch of recievers to be available with analog 5.1.

By the way, whats DPLII??

thanks,

Mikey

[Gardo]

Originally posted by mikey5967

By the way, whats DPLII??

thanks,

Mikey [/B]

Dolby Pro Logic II. It synthesizes a 5.1 mix from ordinary Dolby Pro Logic-encoded stereo soundtracks. Most reviews say it does a creditable job. I haven't heard it myself.

Cheers,
Gardo

[Richard Feirstein]

I too have a vintage Sansui receiver, the one with a built in Dolby B encoder/decoder. My Sony and later Denon receivers blew it away in sound quality; don't know why but those are my perceptions. The Sony was better and the new Denon is better yet. I am waiting for a receiver with the new digital interconnect so that it will decode SACD and DVD-A digital streams. If you can't wait about 18 months there is a lot of good hardware out there today including the Denon 3802.

Richard.

[Johnny C.]

I may have missed the answer to this question, please forgive me if I did:

Do all SACD players that say 'Multi Channel' compatible have the 6 individual rca outputs?

If not, then is it a 5.1 matrix that has to be decoded by a surround amp?

Thanks for any advice.

[Richard Feirstein]

All DVD-A and multi-channel SACD players sport 6 analog outputs and digital audio outputs for conventional Red Book PCM. Within 18 months such players will add a digital multi-channel and digital video output interconnects.

Richard.

[pjrashid]

Richard,

Thanks for the info...

Would you know if the multi-channel digital outs in another 18 months would work with the optical digital input (either DVD or CD inputs) on my Sony DA-30 ES A/V receiver?

:cool:

[Richard Feirstein]

No way Jose. Copy protection mandates HDMI interconnects for interoperability between brands and no other universal interconnect will be enabled. If they include digital video output at the same time it will be a killer application if you own a TV with a compatible digital input; reports are that video quality, especially with solid state displays, takes a huge jump in quality. Start saving your hard earned cash now; it won't come cheap at first.

Richard.

[krabapple]

Originally posted by Gardo


Dolby Pro Logic II. It synthesizes a 5.1 mix from ordinary Dolby Pro Logic-encoded stereo soundtracks. Most reviews say it does a creditable job. I haven't heard it myself.

Cheers,
Gardo

DPL II synthesizes 5.1 from *all* stereo sources, IME.