6DJ8/ECC88 and EL34/6CA7 recommendations?

[Highway Star]

It's getting time to replace the tubes in my Music Reference RM-9. It uses 4 6DJ8/ECC88 tubes and 2/quads of EL34/6CA7 output tubes.

These 6DJ8s have been going for 12 years and are re-branded by RAM Labs (the builder of the RM-9). I'm thinking about going with something NOS but don't want to spend an arm and leg (ie no Telefunkens or Mullards). There's so many choices out there it's kind of confusing, so does anyone here have any advice on a quality 6DJ8/ECC88 brand?

Also, I've been using Svetlana EL34s and have gotten good use out of them, but is there any better 'current production' EL34 brand I could go with? Not sure I want to go NOS on these as 8 of them would be rather costly.

[aashton]

I am afraid it's years since I let go of my amp with EL34s in and I used the valves (tubes) that you aren't considering ( I could pick them up for much the same price as the New production stuff).

There is a comparison test of different tubes (valves) here

http://www.watfordvalves.com/mainindex.htm

Good luck in your search - Andrew

[Sckott]

You can still get Sylvania ECC88's at thetubestore.com and as far as current production EL34/6CA7, it's Electro-Harmonix. They go for about $26 per matched pair. Svetlana's and Sovtek's are good tubes, but aren't as rugged and don't sound as good, IMHO.

[Highway Star]

Thanks for the information Andrew and Sckott. I'm going to give the EH brand a try. I think I can get 2 matched quads for just a little over $100. Haven't decided on the 6DJ8's yet, but I'll inquire about the Sylvanias when I order the EH's tomorrow.

[petzi]

Originally posted by telefunken
It's getting time to replace the tubes in my Music Reference RM-9. It uses 4 6DJ8/ECC88 tubes and 2/quads of EL34/6CA7 output tubes.

These 6DJ8s have been going for 12 years and are re-branded by RAM Labs (the builder of the RM-9). I'm thinking about going with something NOS but don't want to spend an arm and leg (ie no Telefunkens or Mullards). There's so many choices out there it's kind of confusing, so does anyone here have any advice on a quality 6DJ8/ECC88 brand?

Also, I've been using Svetlana EL34s and have gotten good use out of them, but is there any better 'current production' EL34 brand I could go with? Not sure I want to go NOS on these as 8 of them would be rather costly.

You should check out E88CC. These are upgraded versions of the ECC88 with longer life. 10000h are specified for this tube. They are still quite available as NOS, check out Siemens, Philips, Valvo or the like. I can get you some German NOS if you want them.

Regarding EL34, I know from a source that I trust that Svetlana EL34 are the best. This guy knows everything in detail that I only know hearsay about. A real tube geek with an EE degree... Don´t go for NOS here, too expensive.

[Highway Star]

Originally posted by petzi


You should check out E88CC. These are upgraded versions of the ECC88 with longer life. 10000h are specified for this tube. They are still quite available as NOS, check out Siemens, Philips, Valvo or the like. I can get you some German NOS if you want them.

Regarding EL34, I know from a source that I trust that Svetlana EL34 are the best. This guy knows everything in detail that I only know hearsay about. A real tube geek with an EE degree... Don´t go for NOS here, too expensive.


Yeah, I was curious about the E88CC as I've been seeing some of those on eBay (along w/everything else). I'll see if I can get a few of them. Not sure what brand of 6DJ8 Modjeski put in these RM-9's, but they're still going after 12 years of use.

I'm getting around 6 years out of the output tubes though. I just saw some Electro-Harmonix big bottle 6CA7's that looked interesting. I just wish it were possible to test these things out in my amp before making a purchase though. My amp will also use 6550's and KT88's, but they get very pricey w/8 even in current production.

I have a nice Wright Audio 35wpc that uses 2 duets of 6CA7/EL34's, maybe I'll get a quad of the EH's and do a comparison (I still have a few Svets on hand).

Thanks.

[petzi]

Originally posted by telefunken
...
Yeah, I was curious about the E88CC as I've been seeing some of those on eBay (along w/everything else). I'll see if I can get a few of them. Not sure what brand of 6DJ8 Modjeski put in these RM-9's, but they're still going after 12 years of use.
...

Can you find a small two line code etched into the glass on these tubes? If so, what is the first character or symbol in the second line?

[Highway Star]

No, I don't see anything etched in the glass. Just has the RAM Tube Works label of Roger Modjeski. They must pre-date 1990, since that's when I purchased the amp.

[petzi]

Originally posted by telefunken
No, I don't see anything etched in the glass. Just has the RAM Tube Works label of Roger Modjeski. They must pre-date 1990, since that's when I purchased the amp.

Then all I can say right now is that it is most probably not a Philips/Mullard/Amperex/Valvo etc. tube. Those brands belonged to the Philips group, and tubes produced by a factory in the Philips group were marketed under a number of labels that belonged to the group.

I have a NOS Valvo EL34 which I identified as a Mullard from the Blackburn factory via the code. Valvo was a company located in Hamburg, Germany, though...

Many tubes branded Valvo, Philips, Amperex were actually made in Heerlen, Netherlands. Now that was a good tube factory. You recognize these tubes by a delta in the second line of the code.

[indy mike]

Originally posted by petzi


You should check out E88CC. These are upgraded versions of the ECC88 with longer life. 10000h are specified for this tube. They are still quite available as NOS, check out Siemens, Philips, Valvo or the like. I can get you some German NOS if you want them.

Regarding EL34, I know from a source that I trust that Svetlana EL34 are the best. This guy knows everything in detail that I only know hearsay about. A real tube geek with an EE degree... Don´t go for NOS here, too expensive.

Are those German sourced tubes expensive? I run 7308's (NOS Amperex) in my Musical Fidelity tubed buffer stage and will need something to retube with someday. As for EL34's, our pal Steve hepped me to the sonic coolness of Siemens version made in E. Germany - I run them in my Dynaco MK IV's and they were much better sonically than the Russian tubes they came with (course, I also nabbed some NOS Mullard GZ-34's and RCA 7199's which didn't hurt the sound any...)

[petzi]

Originally posted by indy mike


Are those German sourced tubes expensive? I run 7308's (NOS Amperex) in my Musical Fidelity tubed buffer stage and will need something to retube with someday. As for EL34's, our pal Steve hepped me to the sonic coolness of Siemens version made in E. Germany - I run them in my Dynaco MK IV's and they were much better sonically than the Russian tubes they came with (course, I also nabbed some NOS Mullard GZ-34's and RCA 7199's which didn't hurt the sound any...)

7308 is equivalent to ECC88? Amperex is probably good. Let me know what the two line code in the glass is :)

I guess you´d have to pay in the order of 20 to 25 for one unused vintage E88CC tube. Check this out, this looks really good. It says made in Holland, they always produced quality there. Guess you won´t ever have to retube with a decent E88CC.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1373834655

This is what I would buy if I needed E88CC. No idea what the reserve is, but you´ll find out...


Regarding the EL34 you mention:

There was a company in East Germany, RFT. They produced tubes for various West German brands when this was no longer economically feasible in West Germany. Many EL34 were sold under the name Siemens or National, that were actually produced by RFT. And yes, they are actually quite good. Here you find a quad, from a seller in USA. They look authentic and the price is reasonable. A lot of these white box EL34 unearthed recently, there is a German guy who must have sold hundreds of these via eBay in quads.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1374925171

[indy mike]

I believe the family is 6DJ8, 6922, 7308 with each tube built to higher quality/longer life...

[aashton]

I found this on different ECC88 types at the www.machmat.com site

Versions the ECC88 comes in are:

* ECC88 / 6DJ8, ECC88 and 6DJ8 are exactly the same, 6DJ8 is the USA name and ECC88 is the name used in Europe. The ECC88 / 6DJ8 must only be used in parallel heater configurations.
* The 7DJ8 / PCC88 are the 0.3A series heater current versions of the ECC88 / 6DJ8. The Heater voltage is 7V. The PCC88/7DJ8 can be used in parallel and series heater configuration.
* The E88CC / 6922 are the premium military versions of the ECC88 / 6DJ8. Again the E88CC is the European name and 6922 is the USA name. Mostly these tubes have goldpins. Sometimes these tubes come with pinched waists, the glass has been clamped at the place of the top-mica.
* The E188CC / 7308 tubes are the special matched section, low noise and microphonics version of the E88CC/6922.
* The E288CC / 8223 are absolute top sounding special quality E188CC / 7308. They are not exactly the same as the E88CC / 6922. They work at a little more heater current (0.475A against 0.3A), please take care your amp can deliver this.
* The CCa is the special quality version of the ECC88 made by Siemens.
* The old production Russian ECC88 / 6DJ8 is the 6H1pi.
* The old production Russian premium E88CC / 6922 is the 6H23pi. This tubes sounds very well, and is very well made. This tube beats the crap out of modern Russian tubes!

All the best - Andrew

[petzi]

Indy mike, check this out for vintage E188C, I am certain that these tubes were made in Heerlen, Netherlands, and I am almost certain that your Amperex 7308 were the same tubes made in the same factory.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1374262144

How long have you been using the 7308?

[aashton]

Originally posted by petzi
Indy mike, check this out for vintage E188C, I am certain that these tubes were made in Heerlen, Netherlands, and I am almost certain that your Amperex 7308 were the same tubes made in the same factory.

The site I mentioned above backs up Petzi on this - it states

Note: As far as I know Amperex never produced any E88CC theirselves. Amperex bugle boy are (like the Philips SQ E88CC!) in fact made in the Philips Heerlen factory in The Netherlands (triangle date code). They all have the circular getter shield above the upper mica with the two raised rectangular sections on opposite edges of the shield. Also they have the four ridges on the top of the glass. They have gold pins, but do not have a number printed at the bottom (so there are not Siemens).

All the best - Andrew

[Highway Star]

I e-mailed the people at The TubeStore about the Electro-Harmonix big bottle 6CA7 versions and was told that EH screwed-up the internal wiring on the tubes and they were all recalled. I'd like to give a set of these a try (especially in my Wright P-75) but I don't know how long it will be before the corrected tubes get to the suppliers. Saw a set on Ebay from Hong Kong but...?

Cool data on the 6DJ8/variants Andrew, thanks for the link.

[herbelin]

The Amperex 7308 is a great tube, but extremely scarce to find. The Siemens 7308 gold-pin is also an excellent tube, and easier to find. Also, the Amperex 6922 PQ is way excellent.