ELO Gets ****ilated

[Unknown]

Somebody posted recently about the deluxe 30th anniversary reissue of the first ELO album. I was in London this past weeked and picked up a copy. While there is much to recommend this set -- lots of informative liner notes, previously unpublished photos, bonus tracks, etc, I'm afraid that many people on this list will want to avoid this release thanks to the mastering of Peter "The ****ilator" Mew. The liner notes proudly declare that the original analog master tapes were transferred to digital and processed using the NoNoise system. So Mr. Mew has carefully removed every trace of tape hiss. The discs sound very unnatural. Of course, ELO recordings are notoriously overproduced, so I can't really tell how much damage was done by Mew and how much by Mssrs. Wood and Lynne. Perhaps somebody who has both the original Harvest LP and this latest reissue could comment.

[Gary]

..........man, these guys are gonna turn me into a vinyl junkie....... :mad:

[btomarra]

I thought about getting it, but now....

On a slightly different note...I am a bit frustrated with the handling of the catalog. On the reissue of Secret Messages, Beatles Forever (I believe, that's the title) was withheld as a bonus track. What about Hello, My Old Friend or Buildings Have Eyes, and the other outtakes that appeared on Afterglow? Why were they withheld. So, I have to have TWO box sets with umpteenth dupes to get a proper ELO retrospective?

Also, Light Years (the 2-CD, 25th anniversary collection) was deleted and replaced by the Ultimate Collection. It has an expansive booklet, now, but a terrible resequencing of its tracks. You start an ELO collection with Hold On Tight and end disc two with Four Little Diamonds? Light Years had disc one end with Mr Blue Sky (so that song ends with the line "Turn Me Over..." and end with disc two with Roll Over Beethoven. Much better!!

As I said, I'm really frustrated with ELO's catalog.

:confused:

[Unknown]

<<On the reissue of Secret Messages, Beatles Forever (I believe, that's the title) was withheld as a bonus track. What about Hello, My Old Friend or Buildings Have Eyes, and the other outtakes that appeared on Afterglow? Why were they withheld. So, I have to have TWO box sets with umpteenth dupes to get a proper ELO retrospective?>>

If you have problems with the bonus track selection on the Legacy reissues, don't blame Bob Irwin or Al Quaglieri (sp?). I spoke with Al at Home Entertainment 2001 and he told me that there had been a lot of complaints about the Secret Messages reissue, and especially the omission of Beatles Forever. Apparently, Secret Messages was originally going to be a double LP, but the label wanted a single LP, so Jeff Lynne went back and remixed the album, dropping several tracks and editing others. The original masters for the unissued double album are still in the Sony vaults and apparently somebody had reported that the Legacy reissue would include the entire double album, including Beatles Forever. According to Al, this was NEVER the case. Personally, I think Al and Bob would have been thrilled to release the entire double LP, but it wasn't their call -- it was Jeff Lynne's. And Jeff wouldn't agree to this. Seems kind of odd that Jeff Lynne wouldn't want this album out in the way he originally intended, but I guess artists are fickle. Hell, something similar happened with Lou Reed's Berlin album (which was also originally intended to be a double album) -- the folks at BMG were apparently willing to discuss a "restored" version, but Lou wanted the remastered CD to have the same contest as the original (truncated) LP release.

With regard to Beatles Forever, Al told me that was the single most requested bonus track. And Al kept on going back to Jeff and Jeff kept on saying no, and eventually Al had to take no for an answer. Interestly enough, Al has actually heard the song and told me its nothing special.

I'm also disappointed that all the non-album tracks from the Afterglow box set didn't find a home on the reissues.

[btomarra]

Quoth Dave

If you have problems with the bonus track selection on the Legacy reissues, don't blame Bob Irwin or Al Quaglieri (sp?). I spoke with Al at Home Entertainment 2001 and he told me that there had been a lot of complaints about the Secret Messages reissue, and especially the omission of Beatles Forever. Apparently, Secret Messages was originally going to be a double LP, but the label wanted a single LP, so Jeff Lynne went back and remixed the album, dropping several tracks and editing others.


Where did I blame Bob Irwin? I complained about the reissues, whoever is to blame. I just stated that Secret Messages should have had the missing songs that appeared on Afterglow so we can avoid duplication.That's all! ;)

[Douglas]

Anyone heard the gold CD for Discovery? Opinions?

[Unknown]

Brian -- I'm wasn't suggesting that you were blaming Bob or Al. I was just saying that Jeff Lynne had to approve all of the bonus tracks. Bob and Al no doubt wanted to include more, and if given the opportunity, probably would have included all the relevant non-LP b-sides along with any halfway decent outtakes. Just look at what they did with the Byrds reissues, which are chock full of bonus tracks. Unfortunately, Jeff Lynne was more stingy than Roger McGuinn. I don't know why he had a problem with including some of the material found on Afterglow as bonus tracks. Perhaps his opinion of some of these songs has changed since Afterglow was released. Too bad they couldn't make Flashback a 4CD set and included all the material that has previously been available exclusively on Afterglow.

[btomarra]

Dave,

It's a shame Jeff didn't want to include more on these reissues.

As a side note: Correct me if I'm wrong: When the Afterglow box came out, the fans complained at the horrible sound of the Out of The Blue tracks and wrote into ICE (I agreed with them). That's why I hated the box. Also Calling America was omitted. After research, ICE found out that Jeff selected the tracks and the sources. If correct, Jeff strikes again.

If only the Flashback box had the Afterglow tracks with its sound quality. And I wish Fire On High was not omitted again.

Thanks Dave for your input. I totally agree with you!! ;)

[John Carsell]

Yeah the sound of the "Afterglow" box set sucked sonic wind, I got rid of it after awhile just 'cause the sound was so awful. I think I'll shy away from the 30th anniversary edition of the first album since Peter Mew has gotten involved with it. Original import LP's on the Harvest label usually sound great, so seek those out instead. The best version of "Fire On High" to me is on the deleted Sony gold CD of "Face The Music".

[Mart]

Originally posted by jlomax:
Anyone heard the gold CD for Discovery? Opinions?

More revealing of music & shortcommings ... a valid option.

[Unknown]

An interesting group and some interesting points. To clear up some of the more negative and uninformed opinions, I can't believe Peter Mew is getting critiscism for the work he has done on the remaster of ELO's debut album.

Not only has he satisfied both Roy Wood and Jeff Lynne, he has vastly improved upon the previously (unintentional) "muddy" sound on the original vinyl issue - and much is revealed. We listened to both the Harvest UK pressing, the USA United Artists vinyl "No Answer", the original EMI Japanese pressing and the Brazillian Quad pressing before we started. Plus the 7" singles.

In addition to dealing with fragile tapes and multitracks full of the most edit splices any of us had ever seen (the Orchestra consisted then mainly of Lynne, Wood and Bevan, endlessly overdubbing) Peter has combined a new clarity with warmth.

That is why new and old ELO fans are praising this remaster 100%.

I take issue with the comment that the CD's sound "very unnatural". I've lived with this album since it was originally released in 1971 and all EMI's various worldwide reissues on every format, including reel to reel tape. I've listened to the studio sessions while Lynne and Wood were creating their music, to each track channel where multitracks still survive and I personally think Peter has done an exceptional job - this remaster has the most natural and warm sound and gets as close as posible to what was happening in Philips Studios during 1970 - 1971.

Tape hiss? Well, the majority of CD2 is previously unreleased, live and session recordings so that comment doesn't really apply. Would the artists get rid of hiss if they could? That can be debated endlessly, but the people whose decisions matter are Roy Wood and Jeff Lynne - and if they are happy, if the fans who know this album completely are happy, then I think we've done our job.

Are ELO recordings notoriously overproduced? It's a charge that could possibly be levelled at their 80's recordings, but for albums such as Eldorado, Face The Music, etc. I don't think so. What many don't appear to realise is that ELO recorded, mixed and produced very, very quickly - most of their tracks were done basically live, with very few takes.

With the forthcoming remasters, this should become very apparent.

The Showdown ELO internet mailing list has been busy posting positive fan feedback to the remaster from around the world. If anyone would like to read these, we'll be putting them up on the website at www.ftmusic.com (http://www.ftmusic.com) very shortly.

All the best - Rob

[Unknown]

On a slightly different note...I am a bit frustrated with the handling of the catalog.

Aren't we all - that's why the long, long overdue remastering campaign is underway. Fans may not realise but Sony / Legacy do not hold many of the master tapes and certainly none of the multitracks - neither does Jeff Lynne.

It's taken a long time to track these down.

The Secret Messages remaster is unsatisfactory - not soundwise though. Al (as ever) has done a wonderful job. There was a lot of arguement about tracks and running orders.

Light Years was good fun and did very sales wise. The Ultimate Collection track sequence is ridiculous and unecessary though - it originated from Sony Germany and was followed by London. All I had control over this time was the booklet. Strangly, a higher chart position with something a lot of fans and buyers all ready have.

We are attempting to get rid of any further frustrations with ELO's catalogue.

All the best - Rob

[Metralla]

Rob,

Thanks for registering and thanks for your very interesting post, which was well structured and well argued. I look forward to more from you in the future.

Regards,
Metralla

[Holy Zoo]

(Rob -welcome to the forum, and thanks for your comments!)

A question for everyone (err... anyone?) - has anyone heard the remasted Time?

It's my favorite ELO album (and probably their most underrated), and I'm curious how the remaster compares to the original CD. CDNow says that it was remastered by Joe Gastwirt.

thanks!

[ December 01, 2001: Message edited by: Holy Zoo ]

[Dave]

In regards to your post
jlomax
Junior Member
Member # 169
posted November 26, 2001 06:10 PM

Anyone heard the gold CD for Discovery? Opinions?
Hi,
I own both Discovery and Face The Music on the Sony Mastersound gold cd series and both of these are much more revealing than any other copies I've heard of these albums.
Hope this helps ya. :D

[Douglas]

Thanks Dave. I've actually obtained my own copy of the disc since my post (for $9 used - the gold disc!!) and have been enjoying it. It's my favorite disc of theirs, although I understand that ELO people, of which I'm not really one, don't seem to like it much. I wish they would put their songs from Xanadu on it, I like All Around the World too and it seems to fit well into this collection of tunes. Xanadu is out of print on CD, isn't it?

[ December 01, 2001: Message edited by: jlomax ]

[Douglas]

Thanks Dave. I've actually obtained my own copy of the disc since my post (for $9 used!!) and have been enjoying it. It's my favorite disc of theirs, although I understand that ELO people, of which I'm not really one, don't seem to like it much. I wish they would put their songs from Xanadu on it, I like All Around the World too and it seems to fit well into this collection of tunes. Xanadu is out of print on CD, isn't it?

[Dave]

jlomax,
You're welcome and it's one of my favourite ELO albums as well.
I'm not sure if Xanadu is in or out of print as like you I'm not a huge ELO fan.
I just wish that they would release the whole catalogue to the appropriate hands ie. Steves hands, like they should have done in the first place. Eeesh :rolleyes:

[Holy Zoo]

Xanadu is pretty readily available... (quick scan...)

Yep, both CDNow and Amazon have it:
http://www.cdnow.com/cgi-bin/mserver/SID=1560799943/pagename=/RP/CDN/FIND/album.html/artistid=XANADU/itemid=584721

http://gs.cdnow.com/graphics/COVERART/local/L/78/56/00137856.jpg

Amazon also has the import, as well as something titled "Xanadu - the Remixes"

[Douglas]

Xanadu: The Remixes? My god, that sounds horrifying. Just what I need, more Olivia Newton John 12" dance mixes. But thanks for the link!

[Claviusb]

> To clear up some of the more negative and uninformed opinions, I can't believe Peter Mew is getting critiscism for the work he has done on the remaster of ELO's debut album.

Mr. Mew's past work speaks for itself and I think it's fairly same to say that most people are under the assumption that his work habits haven't changed, and his hearing hasn't improved.

> Not only has he satisfied both Roy Wood and Jeff Lynne, he has vastly improved upon the previously (unintentional) "muddy" sound on the original vinyl issue - and much is revealed. We listened to both the Harvest UK pressing, the USA United Artists vinyl "No Answer", the original EMI Japanese pressing and the Brazillian Quad pressing before we started. Plus the 7" singles.

I understand that they are the creators of the material, and there is no doubt that if they chose "to say this is the one we go with" then that will be what will be released. However, they are also guys closer to 50 than 20 (read: their hearing isn't what it once was) and they also happen to be guys who have spent most of their lives in front of amplifiers turned to "11." For all I know, saying that it passed muster to Jeff and Roy might be like saying Stevie Wonder picked out the cover of his current CD and he's really pleased with it so who are you to argue?

I haven't heard this ELO CD, but I do own Beatles 1 and I'm sure that those artists could've turned down Mr. Mew's work too (if the Beatles don't have the clout to refuse to release product who does?)-- they didn't hold up "1" because of it's sound, it was released and it sold 155 skillion ka-billion copies-- and it sounds like *****! Not just my opinion, tons of people feel that way... about everything Mr. Mew does-- and the rep he has is well-earned. I've invested a bunch of my money into his "work" but I won't anymore unless I know the sound is better. I will agree that's there's more detail in all of his CDs, but for the most part his sound is also etched, thin, and brittle like an ice scraper on a frozen car windshield.

>In addition to dealing with fragile tapes and multitracks full of the most edit splices any of us had ever seen (the Orchestra consisted then mainly of Lynne, Wood and Bevan, endlessly overdubbing) Peter has combined a new clarity with warmth.

That would be a first. Did he get a new computer program to do that? I know this sounds argumentative, and I swear that's not how I mean it-- I love ELO but there really is only one warm sounding ELO disc that I've heard. Steve Hoffman remastered it. I have Flashback and I think the detail is pretty incredible, however it is not warm. Not on my system. If the CDs had the clarity of Flashback and the warmth of DCC's Eldorado I'd be extremely happy. I don't think you'd find yourself going on any forums defending the work of the remastering engineer either.

>That is why new and old ELO fans are praising this remaster 100%.

The number has gotta be less than 100%, if only for David Olstein.

> I take issue with the comment that the CD's sound "very unnatural". I've lived with this album since it was originally released in 1971 and all EMI's various worldwide reissues on every format, including reel to reel tape. I've listened to the studio sessions while Lynne and Wood were creating their music, to each track channel where multitracks still survive and I personally think Peter has done an exceptional job - this remaster has the most natural and warm sound and gets as close as posible to what was happening in Philips Studios during 1970 - 1971.

There is also the possibility that your so close to the forest to see the trees. Digital technology allows people to do amazing things. As I can attest to oh so well, just because some thing can be done doesn't mean it will come out right. The tech people at ILM and George Lucas thought Jar Jar Binks looked photo-real and yet I know many lay people who thought the creature looked phony beyond belief. They have no expertise in digital imaging but they knew what they knew. And the movie still sold a lot of tickets, tapes and DVDs.

>Are ELO recordings notoriously overproduced? It's a charge that could possibly be levelled at their 80's recordings, but for albums such as Eldorado, Face The Music, etc. I don't think so. What many don't appear to realise is that ELO recorded, mixed and produced very, very quickly - most of their tracks were done basically live, with very few takes.

I love Eldorado, but don't tell me it's not melodramatic and over-produced. It's still a great piece of work. Every note.

>The Showdown ELO internet mailing list has been busy posting positive fan feedback to the remaster from around the world. If anyone would like to read these, we'll be putting them up on the website at www.ftmusic.com (http://www.ftmusic.com) very shortly.

Rob, I wouldn't expect DCC here to put up fan mail from people who didn't like their merchandise and I can't imagine you would either. Having said that, I signed up on your mailing list.

>All the best - Rob

Same to you, thanks very much for coming on this forum.

[FabFourFan]

Originally posted by DAVID OLSTEIN:
Somebody posted recently about the deluxe 30th anniversary reissue of the first ELO album. ...
I'm afraid that many people on this list will want to avoid this release thanks to the mastering of Peter "The ****ilator" Mew. ...
The discs sound very unnatural.

Originally posted by ROB CAIGER:
To clear up some of the more negative and uninformed opinions, I can't believe Peter Mew is getting criticism for the work he has done on the remaster of ELO's debut album. ...
Peter has combined a new clarity with warmth. ...
I take issue with the comment that the CD's sound "very unnatural"...
This remaster has the most natural and warm sound...

Originally posted by CLAVIUSB:
Mr. Mew's past work speaks for itself and I think it's fairly safe to say that most people are under the assumption that his work habits haven't changed, and his hearing hasn't improved. ...
I will agree that's there's more detail in all of his CDs, but for the most part his sound is also etched, thin, and brittle like an ice scraper on a frozen car windshield.

---
Quick background:
- ELO was my favorite working band from about 1972 to 1978 (I got all the original UK vinyl), and I liked the Move even before that.
- I've collected ELO on CD since about 1986, thus I already had 2, 3, or even 4 copies on CD of every track on this first ELO album, BEFORE I got the new 30th Anniversary set.

So, now that that's out of the way, the following is, ahem, just my 'negative and uninformed' opinion. :-)

---
David is quite correct:
These new cds are horrible sounding, deliberately and intentionally horrible sounding.
****ilated, they are. The sound has been professionally destroyed. :-(

Rob is quite incorrect:
Seriously, there is nothing 'natural' about the sound of these new cds.
And in my listening room, they're about as warm as a burning picture of a fireplace.
But they are LOUD, especially in what used to be the quiet-sounding parts (there are no more quiet-sounding parts).

Claviusb's post is wonderful and so very polite! Thank you from a fellow list-member. You should post more!

---
Bottom line:
The first ELO album is like no other album, and it you remember it as fondly as I do,
then this is a MUST-HAVE reissue because of all the extra tracks on the two cds, despite the ruined sound.

Also, the packaging is informative, even though it's a little disorganized and self-involved (underedited fanboys at work).

As always, should anybody be interested, I can supply a cdr with 5 different versions of, say, "Mr Radio", so you can hear for yourself.

Thanks for listening!