electrostatic speakers...are they worth it

slim, sleek, compact, sexy.... the electrostatic speaker is very stylish
and fits well in a small room. But they are very expensive compared to
the more conventional towers. so the questions are:
do they sound better than conventionals?
do they use more energy than conventionals?
overall... are they worth the extra cash?

aside: correct me if I'm wrong, but do they work by using magnetic
force to cause the membrane to vibrate by alternating the attractive
force of a positive and negative grid?

 

They do not (from what I understand) operate on a magnetic principle; here are a couple links that go into some detail:

http://www.iaguk.com/quad/eslworks.htm

http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/speaker11.htm

 

I do not quite agree with many of your characterizations of electrostatic speakers. "Slim," yes, "sleek," yes, "sexy," perhaps--it's in the eyes of the beholder--but "compact," no. Never. I owned several electrostatic speakers (Accoustat 6, Martin-Logan CLS) and other planar speakers (Magnapans II, Apogee Scintilla) through the years. I love them, but none of them were what you would call "compact." No, they do not fit well in a small room. As a matter of fact, they tend to dominate the room, even the sleek CLS. They must also be placed away from the walls on all sides to sound their best so they generally work much better in a large room. I don't find them more expensive than "the more conventional towers." The CLS, for example, were very reasonably prices for audiophile speakers. The Maggies (not electrostatic but also dipolar) were true bargains. So the question about the "extra cash" for electrostatics doesn't really apply.

Do they sound "better" than conventional speakers? I can't say that. They definitely sound different from cone speakers. They are dipolar speakers so their imaging and sound-stage are very different from those of box speakers. I love the sound of electrostatics but I know many who simply can't stand it. Full-range electrostatic speakers have very coherent, seemless sound (no crossover). Their transients are very quick so guitars for example sound great on them. But, and this is a big but, I find the electrostatics less dynamic than cone speakers--they simply don't move enough air. And the bass is never fully satisfactory to me unless woofers or subwoofers are added. Mind you, I don't really miss the bass while listening to electrostatics, not until I hear real bass from cone speakers. Electrostatic speakers, especially early ones, present difficult loads for amplifiers. I haven't the foggiest idea if they use "more energy" than conventional cone speakers as you said, but you must select the right amp to drive them properly.

In a nutshell, electrostatic speakers sound different from cone speakers, not necessarily better or worse. They are competitively priced. Despite their sleek appearance, they still dominate the room and require a large space to sound their best. I have a love-hate relationship with them. You must listen to them in person, however, and decide for yourself if you like their sound. No one else can make that decision for you.

 

1. Electostatic speakers usually require an amp with above average power. They're NOT efficient speakers!

2. They have a "ghostly" sound. Instead of "comin' at cha", it sounds like sound is coming from places "around" the speakers instead of "from" them.

3. They usually have to keep charged, so usually, they have to be plugged in. New or discharged speakers won't sound good until they've been "nibbling" on electricity for 3 or more days.

Image of my Acoustat 3.... http://home.comcast.net/~sckott/Five.jpg

Small??? Noooooo.....Not these speakers.

 

I don't love the sound of the ones I have heard but you usually get a lot of bang and a big box for your buck. They always sound thin and shallow to me. Big suckers though...
Peace-
Norm

 

I have a pair of Janszen Z30 electrostatics. These have a cone woofer and so technically they are hybrids I guess. I've had them for the last 18 years and think they sound great.

Anyone else have opinions on them?

 

I used Quad 57's for 10 years, the perfect speaker IMHO, they do rock and they have some bass.

You only need 10 really good "push-pull" watts to drive them (at 15 ohm). The down side is that you need a big room as they need to have at least 8ft behind them and the sweet spot is only 1ft wide, so not very social.

I love them, don't get hybrid, get the real thing

Tim

 

my first real audiophile speakers were janszen electrostatics, i bought four of them, and pushed them with a 100 watt kenwood receiver. that was back in 1975 -76. they sounded absolutely fantastic, but after about 5 years the electrostatic plates stated to fade in and out until they quit working altogether. this happened to three of the four speakers. and they were very expensive to get repaired.

do they still make them?

renny

 

My Janszens are being run by a 25 year old Technics SU-V6.
They had the power supplies fixed about 6 years ago and have been running fine ever since.
About the only downside is that they can resonate a little bit on some programme material (certain piano makes them buzz a little). It seems to be weather dependant...crazy eh?

So I look out the windows before I put on Keith Jarrett's "The Koln Concert"

 

I think electrostatics are more voltage-hungry than current-hungry...a different type of load than a conventional speaker.

 

In addition to everything said above, one thing to watch out for with electrostats is that they tend to 'beam' i.e. have a very narrow sweet spot.

I recently had a chance to hear the $20,000 Innersound Kayas. When I sat in a chair 10 feet in front and directly between them, it was probably the best sound I ever heard in my life. With the Kayas Innersound has reached new levels of dynamics in electrostatic technology. Great, great stuff. But if I stood up and got more than a few feet off-axis, they sounded terrible. Not just not great, but nearly offensive.

If, like me, you tend to bop about the house while listening, you'll want to think twice about going the electrostatic route. Martin Logan has partially ameliorated the beaming problem by curving their panels, but it's still an issue.

 

what a range of opinions!
by compact i meant wall-mountable. oops
sounds very high-maintenance

 

You would have to mount the transformers elsewhere. Not on the wall

 

I also have Martin Logan Ascents. Are they worth it? Well, these are all opinions, right? Here's the opinion of someone who's three favorite albums are the very controversial 1, The Capitol Albums Vol. 1, and Brian Wilson Presents SMiLE: Barring my wife's engagement ring, I have never spent my money in a better way.

 

Perhaps you are thinking of Magnepan speakers? In their panel shape they look similar to some electrostatics and are sometimes confused for being electrostatic when in fact are not. They do, however, have wall mountable versions (sort of).

http://www.magnepan.com/home_theater.php

John K.

 

Excellent synopsis Justin!

You really have to listen to them yourself to get a feel for what they are like. My buddy has the Martin Logan CLS-I as his main speakers, and I think they are simply amazing! Ruthlessly revealing as one of the TAS reviewers said many moons ago. If you want to hear deeply into a recording, they are the ones to get! Not much bass to talk about though (he has Entec subs added, which mate very well!) and the sound is not for everyone. I'm a Maggie freak, but I don't get that blissful transparency that the CLS-I's give you. And I have heard the later CLS's and they don't have that special sound of the ones.

Find a store and listen for yourself. I know I have to have planars!

 

Thanks.

Thanks. I wished I had edited more carefully and not typed "seemless" instead of seamless.

 

I agree about the size

Sckott,

I quite agree about the size. You're lucky though with the Accoustat 3s. I had the Accoustat 6s! They are two pairs of 3s stacked one on top of the other. They stood just a few inches shorter than my 8-foot ceiling. Luckily, they were white or they would have looked exactly like the black monoliths from Stanley Kubrik's 2001.

There was one big advantage of those nearly 8-foot tall speakers. Thanks to their tremendous height--from floor to ceiling--the sound completely collapsed into point sources! Talking about great imaging and soundstage! Still I was very glad to get rid of these monsters because they completely dwarfed my living room. I still have nightmares that the buyer returned them to me. Mercy!

 

t3hsheepdog:

You really owe it to yourself to listen to some electrostats. I think every self-respecting audiophile -- even if he never purchases electrostats -- gets a smile on his face the first time he hears electrostats because there are some immediately noticeable things that electrostats do remarkably well. Good electrostats are uniquely transparent and have excellent mid-range detail. It is worth the listen for these reasons alone, even if they don't persuade you to overlooks electrostats' shortcomings (which have been largely chronicled above).

I don't own elctrostats because I prefer the dynamics, energy, bass, etc that I get from conventional speakers, but I don't think i could fairly say that I made an educated decision unless I lstened to some better stats. There was a thread a couple of weeks ago about Quads that can give you an idea of how strongly electrostat lovers feel about their speakers.

 

That's the reason I got them. Some poor chap was trying to make room for his Sony Beta tapes as his divorce stuffed him into an apartment the size of a garage. The speakers looked HUGE in this little place.

And I own a condo, not monsterous by any means, but they work well. I was lucky to adopt them because, as been said, I'm a better person for understading them and hearing what they do with Brubeck!!

 

The black monoliths

As I have stated before, I have had a love-hate relationship with dipolar/planar speakers for years. I have had in my system the Maggies III, the Apogee Scintilla, the Accoustat 6s and the Martin Logan CLS. In addition to the venetian-blind effect--the image suddenly shifts if you move your head sideways just slightly away from the center--these planar speakers also suffer from vertical beaming which causes you to lose the magic as you stand up.

Of these planar speakers, only the Accoustat 6s (and their bigger bothers, the 8s) overcame the vertical beaming problem, but they did it with brute-force. These speakers were almost eight-feet tall! So, in most rooms with 8-foot ceiling, the sound collapses vertically to a point source! The magic remains as you stand up. Of course, now you are staring at a pair of monoliths from Kubrik's 2001 Space Odyssey, really quite frightening in black. You may also remember that the Infinity IRS towers achieved the point-source effects the same way, by being very tall and with drivers in vertical symmetry.

 

Electrostatic Speakers

A newcomer to this list, I read with interest responses from June 2005. I have a pair of KLH 9's from 1964. Six feet tall, 30 " wide and 2 3/4" thick. They were the first "real" speakers I ever owned and they still function well--although they require a higher setting on my volume control here than they did at sea level. They have great presence and crisp response and work best in a room with nine foot ceilings and at least 600 square feet. Five years ago I finally bought a sub woofer to supplement them for organ music.

My reason for writing is to inquire if anyone knows of a small scale Electrostatic (a single, not a pair) to use for my center channel, with DVD's. My hearing is not as good as it used to be and I miss some dialog because my present center channel speaker is "mushy". As a result I often use the "Stereo" setting instead of Surround when watching DVDs. Any thoughts on availability of a small electrostatic?

 

Here are a couple of comments from someone who just recently sold his electrostatic speakers... (MartinLogan Scenarios).

Electrostatics DO sound different. VERY different. Night and day difference. Guitars sound incredible. Pianos are amazing. Vocals are out of this world. I have never heard such a pure, quick, pristine midrange.

BUT -

I'd seriously recommend you to live with the speakers before buying them for, say, 1 week. 7 days is more than enough for you to find out whether electrostats are for you. The first few days you'll bask in the glory of the purest, fastest midrange ever.

Then, if you are like me, you'll notice you may need to upgrade your amp, because electrostats are very power hungry. And you'll see that so much midrange detail may make you go crazy and turn off your system. You may notice how much these speakers can "glare" in the mids. How the bass is not exactly what you were expecting.

Or, you may find that they suit your listening habits just fine, and you'll have the best speakers you've ever owned.

I wish I could have solved the midrange glare problem. Still, the speakers were far too strident for me. I sold them, and I'd never buy another electrostatic speaker again. The person I sold the speakers to had a set of CLS II's and Carver Amazing Loudspeakers. So I guess it all comes down to personal taste.

 

Yeah. Electostatics are a strange breed. You MAY/MAY not love em.

 

I'll chime and say first, never owned any electrostatics, but I would like to, I do/did have had a pair of Magnepan MG-1imps. I bought them new.
They do have some things in common with Electrostatics. They are not small, they require proper placement and they dominate a room.
They sound different. They do some things great and lack in some other areas.
Definitely audition some, in the home if possible and don't rule out planars.
My Maggies are supposed to be purely resistive, little change in impedance/frequency which actually made them easy on amps. But they never ROCKED, if they did, you blow a fuse on the tweeter and eventually, well they sound great at reasonable levels.
Electrostatics are a different animal, but a friend of mine has a pair of Quad ESLs and they sound great, too.
But they are like having headphones, very impersonal, you have to be in the sweet spot.