Yes Japanese HDCDs vs. Rhino Remasters

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Barnabas Collins, Feb 24, 2005.

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  1. Barnabas Collins

    Barnabas Collins Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    NH
    I was really excited to win the entire Yes HDCD collection from Ebay a few years ago. Those Japanese mini sleeves sure are beautiful. And that HDCD insignia means audiophile mastering quality, right? WRONG! Loud, hissy, distorted (you should hear Fragile, yeesh!) and fatiguing, I sold all my Joe Gastwirt remasters in anticipation of the Yes HDCD collection so I can't do any kind of A/B anymore.

    How about the recent Rhino remasters? Are they any good or should I just hunt for UK vinyl?
     
  2. Norbert Becker

    Norbert Becker Senior Member

    Location:
    Philadelphia PA
    I have heard all sorts of Yes. I own the MFSL LP of Close To The Edge. The Rhinos sound great, have bonus tracks, and are cheap. You can't beat that!
     
  3. dkmonroe

    dkmonroe A completely self-taught idiot

    Location:
    Atlanta
    I never heard the Japanese CD's or the Gastwirts, but I have three of the Rhinos, and I think they sound excellent.
     
  4. Jamie Tate

    Jamie Tate New Member

    Location:
    Nashville
    Get the Rhinos. I have every CD release of these albums (vinyl too) and the Rhinos are among the best.

    The only Gastwirt that I think is slightly better is Fragile. I have the Gold CD but hear the aluminum is the same mastering.
     
  5. Jamie Tate

    Jamie Tate New Member

    Location:
    Nashville
    Oh, forgot to say the JPN CD's are nasty. Feed them to your pet goat and wait for them at the other end.
     
    driverdrummer likes this.
  6. JWB

    JWB New Member

    Rael -

    The Rhino's are excellent! Much better than the mini-sleeves and the Gastwirts!
     
  7. Tim H.

    Tim H. Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cottonwood AZ
    So far, I've kept both the Gastwirt and Rhino editions of The Yes Album, Fragile, Close to the Edge, and Drama. IMO they both sound excelent, but the Gastwirt ones sound closer to what I grew up hearing with my brother's vinyl. I think Rhino does great work, but it seems everything they put out has a certain "coloring" of the music... I can't quite put my ear on it.

    I think you'll be happy with either.

    From what I've read on the forum, I'm glad I didn't spend the extra $$ for the Japan HDCDs - except 90125.

    Tim Huber
     
  8. Jamie Tate

    Jamie Tate New Member

    Location:
    Nashville
    Joe Gastwirt pushed the levels too far on Drama. There are several spots where there's distortion due to digital clipping. Listen to the last chord of Machine Messiah. That distortion is only on the Gastwirt version. if you looked on a digital meter it's completely in the red (over). :tsk:

    Have you heard the Rhino or original 90125? They're both amazing. The tonality is impressively similar once you adjust for the volume differences. The original CD doesn't have the compression though. :thumbsup:
     
  9. Larry L

    Larry L Senior Member

    Location:
    Allen, Texas
    The Rhino remasters were done by Bill Inglot.
     
  10. Tim H.

    Tim H. Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cottonwood AZ
    I had forgotten about that. I remember when I first got it and wondered if that was on the master tape or not.

    I have both the original (US made in Japan) and the Rhino (plus the JPN HDCD). I used to use the original to test speakers and set my system. I agree they both sound great :righton: - I need to sit and A-B-C compare all the copies. I did my own "remaster" on the original w/cool edit a few years ago - nothing radical, just a couple db hard limiting to punch up the drums and bass a little. I'm a drummer, so I like to hear those a bit more. When I do the limiting I make sure to keep the clipping at .009% or below - I don't want the 2x4 wave!!
     
  11. Jeff Carney

    Jeff Carney Fan Of Specifics (No Koolaid)

    Location:
    SF
    Something that I haven't seen discussed that I recently discovered is that the original US/Japan (AMCY) _Yesshows_ beats the Gastwirt. This of course, is just my opinion, but I don't think many people realize this and the old issue can still be had cheap. The older one sounds more open and natural. The Gastwirt sounds closed and stuffy in comparison. At least, to my ears.
     
  12. Andrew T.

    Andrew T. Out of the Vein

    Location:
    ....
    Are there any other instances where the original '80s Yes CD issues are superior to the 1994 Gastwirt remasters?
     
  13. eelkiller

    eelkiller One of the great unwashed

    Location:
    Northern Ontario
    I have read that the Japan HDCD Yessongs is better than the domestic CD (Rhino has yet to do this one). Is this true?
     
  14. Larry L

    Larry L Senior Member

    Location:
    Allen, Texas
    Yes, and yes. The Japan HDCD of Yessongs is better than the Atlantic remaster, but the Atlantic remaster isn't that bad. But, Yessongs in any form was never that great to start. I would like to see a Rhino re-issue of Yessongs (and Yesshows), but there's talk of a live box set, but nothing concrete. In the world of Yes, don't expect anything until you're holding it in your hands. :confused:
     
  15. Jeff Carney

    Jeff Carney Fan Of Specifics (No Koolaid)

    Location:
    SF

    The boxset is a done deal. A 3-CD set. I think it was just yesterday that I saw the songlist at progressiveears.com.

    As far as the Gastwirt _Yessongs_, something doesn't sound right on that to me. I listened to that Lp TONS and the CD sounds closed. The HDCD is better, I guess. I have it. It's the only HDCD I still have, actually, but I haven't really listened to it. Those HDCDs are just so loud. I'd like to find an original _Yessongs_ with the AMCY catalog number, assuming it was issued in the 80's.
     
  16. namretsam

    namretsam Senior Member

    Location:
    Santa Rosa , CA
    I heard the upcoming box set is a " fan favorite" type and a good deal of it is from bootlegs. I dont think we will be praising its sound merits here.
    Its hard for me to grasp anyone having a problem with the current remasters but to each his own.
     
  17. I have to disagree with the commonly-held opinions here on the Japanese HDCDs. With the major exceptions of the Fragile and Close to the Edge discs, which indeed sound terrible, the rest of the HDCDs sound FAR better to me than any of the three alternatives (almost all of which I have heard. The Rhino remasters sound thin and bright to my ears (although they're worth owning for the bonus tracks), while the original 80s CDs were just abysmal, sounding like 10th generation cassettes to me. The Gastwirts were an improvement, but to me the HDCDs (again, excluding Fragile and CTTE) sound the most analogue-like, with particularly palpable bass and an amazing, almost holographic sense of 3-dimensionality that I haven't heard on any of the other versions. Topographic Oceans, The Yes Album, Relayer, Drama, and 90125 are especially good. But then again, my tastes may be unusual--I think I prefer a more up-front bass sound than many on this forum.
     
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  18. VeeDub

    VeeDub Senior Member

    Location:
    Denver, CO
    The only Japanese HDCD I've owned is 90125, and I thought it was wretched. Maximized, tinny, awful. Either the Rhino or original US CD is a better choice.
     
  19. Hmmm, I can see your point about it being maximized--the HDCDs are unnecessarily load--but tinny? To me, the HDCD sounds, if anything, much darker than either the Rhino or the original (and "tinny" basically describes the sound of early 80s CDs like the original 90125).
     
  20. yesstiles

    yesstiles Senior Member

    I've heard nothing but praise for the HDCD Topographic Oceans. It is suspected to be mastered from the original Japanese vinyl.
     
  21. Jamie Tate

    Jamie Tate New Member

    Location:
    Nashville
    oh yeah, totally agree. The Gastwirt disc just isn't happeneing. I sure wish Bill Inglot could've gotten a hold of this album.
     
  22. Jay

    Jay New Member

    Location:
    Pittsburgh PA
    The Rhino remasters are the only CD versions of the Yes albums I've ever owned. I like the sound well enough, but Yes are real C-listers for me, so I don't know how much I'll listen to them.
     
  23. Jamie Tate

    Jamie Tate New Member

    Location:
    Nashville
    You know how it is, people complain about anything if you give them a chance.

    I personally think Bill Inglot did some of his best work with these Yes remasters. I want to particularly point out his work with the Big Generator material. Even though there's only a few tracks from the box set and Ultimate CD's these songs have never, in any format, sounded better. There's fidelity and depth that were never there before. It almost sounds like he was riding the volume of the song to increase the dynamics and power. I sure wish he could've done the whole album but I understand there was resistance from the band. :(

    If you're curious about comparisons between the different Yes remasters look in the archives. I bet half of my posts can be accounted for sticking up for the Rhino CD's.
     
  24. bob2935

    bob2935 Active Member

    Location:
    Oakville, Canada
    It seems odd to remaster and release 90125 and not Big Generator. Rhythm Of Love was a big enough hit and I don't remember ever hearing anything from Drama on the radio at anytime.
    Bob.
     
  25. Jamie Tate

    Jamie Tate New Member

    Location:
    Nashville
    From what I've been told the band and associates weren't very helpful with Rhino releasing Big Generator. :( I hear Bill and co. wanted to put it out.
     
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