Get a 'table?(long)

[Ted Bell]

Ok group, here's my question with some background. I'd been collecting records since age 11, but sold them all about 5 years ago after not spinning them since the late 80s (got married, had kids, system in family room, only could listen at "reasonable" volume levels with no one home, yada,yada,yada). Two years ago we moved into new home. I claimed the loft as my dedicated listening room and bought new components(no home theatre to attract the kids). My system now consists of SCD777ES->ELAD pre->Sunfire amps->Magnepan 1.6s and Titan II sub. Because of family & business obligations, I can listen maybe 1 hour/night and a few hours on the weekends.

I started purchasing SACDs (and hearing a big difference) until I ran out of titles to my taste-unfortunately this didn't take long. After discovering this site, I've amassed a bunch of DCC and some MFSL cds which I really enjoy. After reading many of the posts here, I'm getting nostalgic about LPs. I figure to do my system justice, I'd have to look at the MMF7 or Rega P3 'table, the Lehman Black Cube or Monolithic phono stage, and a VPI record cleaner. I would mostly be purchasing classic rock LPs. Would this approx 2K expense bring me much more musical satisfaction or should I spend it on software? I would appreciate the group's opinion and comments on my question and the hardware I'm considering. One other important point: I am a NON-TWEAKER-need things to more or less plug and play.

Thanks for any advise.

Jay N.

[Dave B]

Ted, for some earlier advice from others, see my previous post - Turntable Advice.
In my opinion if you are looking for an enjoyable listening experience then by all means make the step back (up?) to vinyl. The necessary extra set up and media care pay off in a musical warmth that most digital media just doesn't have. I had put my vinyl and turntable away for the better part of fifteen years and spent thousands on CDs. Then last year on a whim I pulled out my 'table and some records and I was stunned at how muscal and complete they sounded. Granted there are the occasional clicks or pops and surface noise but for me these are minor and in some ways add to the nostalgic trip. Even better, newer audiophile discs like those Steve has re-mastered for DCC are every bit as clean and pristine as CDs. Right now at home my CD player is idle 70% of the time. I say go for it, your Magies will love you.

[Sckott]

Ah, vinyl. Such wonder, such, life in those grooves. Such a posisble pain in the butt!

I'll make this quick for ya. The Rega Planar 3 is what I would definately concider a table worth fondeling, especially since you want plug and play. The 3 comes with one of the most popular arms, the RB300, and it's already built on the TT when you buy one as a "complete unit" (usually comes like this). All you really have to do is unravel the packaging from the plinth/Arm/Motor combo, and unwrap the heavy glass platter seperately. Put them together without tools or assistance of a priest or rabbi, and BLAMO! Just add on yer cart and go to town.

Ah, and what's this? You say you want a really fine sound from a cart without having to mess with a disc protractor to mesure overhang, position and centering? Cool. Just get a Rega Elys with your Rega. It's possibly one of the better carts I've heard, and it's made for the RB300 arm in a three-point installation that makes it so damn easy. No mess, no fuss. Wow, it's this easy and it's still "high end audiophile"? Well, basically....YES! The only thing you have to adjust is weight and anti-skating, which takes all of 3 minutes, since the two adjustments were meant to relate to one another for easy adjust. Really, it's that easy! Wow, frikkin-a!

Like Jeff and I pittered about on the forum before, you can leave your Rega totally unmodded for its life. They're already installing the upgraded motor they've designed on new models, the black felt mat is killer as far as I've experimented with lots of em, the belt lasts a long-*** time. Just give the Rega a push in the direction before you turn on the power switch in the front for the motor. No, it's not like the belt will wear if you DON'T, but it helps immensely.

The Lehman Black Cube, if you are looking for one of the better Pre's in Solid State, that sucker sounds wonderful without paying tons and tons of money.


The VPI record cleaner or the Nitty Gritty is fine.

I've used a lot of TT's in my life, from DIY's to Denons to dental-floss driven high end monster mothers that get bolted into concrete that look like..well.... crazy. It's no lie that what people have said (Incl. M. Fremer) that the Simple, yet dependable and sleek Planar 3 is musical, detailed and a great performer.

They also come in many colors, and many dealers don't charge you for the wild colors. Mine is black, for simplicity, which is the stock color. How's White look?
http://abacus.sj.ipixmedia.com/abc/M28/_EBAY_3a2d3206eba4654f6d1bd6d7fb/i-1.JPG

Or... you could go full-out crazy!
http://www.rega.co.uk/images/3_p3colours.jpg

Love my Rega. I'd take it to bed with me every night if I could, thumb in mouth, ect.... Oh, anyways, Hope this helps.

[Ronflugelguy]

Ted get a turntable Rega or a VPI and a VPI record cleaning machine and go for it!!!!!!

[Gary]

Ok, here goes the devil's advocate reply. Please note that I have two TT's, a Rega and an Ariston RD11 and I'm not going to give them up any time soon!

---------------------------------------------

Why invest in a $500.00 + TT with a cart for more $ and then, again, a phono preamp for another $500.00?

LPs wear out. They get dirty and scratched (eventually). Pops and clicks drive you batty (I even have them on new 180g vinyl pressing of Wilkinson Tri Cycle!!). You have static problems. You have to clean them with a record cleaning machine, use a vaccuum on them and baby them to death. Sometimes they will never ever get back to 'new' status. There will always be problems like the pop that will not go away.

Steve commented that the sound difference between his vinyl and his CD's should be minimal at best. So why vinyl?

CDs can be resurfaced if something unusual happens. They can be cleaned of finger prints with a minimum of fuss. You don't have to wear gloves when handling the CD.

But sometimes the best sounding version of an album IS the vinyl. Classic Vinyl is excellent (the little I've heard of this company's products!).

Would it not be better to spend the $1,000.00 + on upgrading the CD chain? A DAC? Or investing in SACD or DVD-A?

Just an alternate viewpoint. I just picked up Classic's Crosby Stills and Nash. But if I did NOT already have a TT or two, I do not think that I would get back into vinyl!

[PsychFan]

I appreciate Gary giving us his viewpoint, and I especially thank him for doing so without personally lashing out at those of us who happen to like and play vinyl (calling us names and so forth).

I would add though that one of the benefits of getting back into vinyl for me over the past couple of years has been the ability to pick up a lot of music very, very inexpensively. I've bought I-don't-know-how-many LPs for $1 or less that I may never have bothered to check out on CD (even at used CD prices, which never get quite down to used-LP levels).

Even the somewhat higher-priced items have been worthwhile ... Just yesterday I picked up an exceptionally clean, very early Fantasy LP pressing of CCR's Cosmo's Factory (just wanted to have something to compare the S&P version to, Steve!) for $5. I already had a couple CD versions of this, but I enjoy the opportunity to compare them to an LP version. (And yes, sometimes in these comparisons I do like the CD better.)

Anyway, if you decide to get back into vinyl I think you'll have a lot of fun and maybe be in for a few very pleasant surprises. I second Sckott's recommendation of the Rega Planar 3; I've enjoyed mine for almost a year now and would not part with it. And yes, do incorporate some kind of serious cleaning machine or device(s) into your budget. Enjoy!

[Sckott]

I can't tell ya how many great Fantasy or Blue Note jazz titles I was able to pick up at Hi-Fi sales, electronic shows...etc.. Lots of people getting rid of amazing sounding vinyl for dirt. It's true; a CD player and a great amp and good speakers will make someone happy, but I like washing up a $2 LP and let it fill the room with incredible sonic clarity and realism. You can't buy a decent air freshner for $2! :)

But the sweetest meat is enjoyed when you get closer to the bone. The higher end tables like the Regas definately let to go there. You'd have to listen to be a believer.

Still, to each his own. I just enjoy vinyl very very much. Not any of my friends do anymore.

[pigmode]

I'll pick one up in a few months. I still have a modest collection (about 600) so I really need it, plus I'm getting the Classic ZEPs. None have been played in nearly ten years. How do you prevent the covers from fading? I was pretty suprised when I took a look at them recently.

Does the Rega or the VPI have auto-return and a strobe?

[Ted Bell]

Thanks for all the advice. Today, I wound up ordering a used Rega 3 with Clearudio cartridge and a Monolithic PS-1 phono stage. I do plan on getting a record cleaner (probably VPI 16.5-anyone know who has the best deal?). I also appreciated Gary's viewpoint. My problem is that I already have a high end SACD player, but ran out of titles I was interested in purchasing.

There are a couple of decent used record stores in town, so I am looking forward to scouring their bins. I spent a lot of my free time growing up doing just that. Only problem is I'll probably wind up re-purchasing some titles I sold to them. :eek:

Jay N.

[Pat]

Jay N,

Sounds like you're headin' out to Vinyl Fever and/or Sound Exchange, huh?! Any other good vinyl places that I've missed? Actually...you can relax...as I don't actively buy too much vinyl anymore.

Did you hit the "local" Record Collector show on Saturday?

Email me at : p.d.cardon@worldnet.att.net
if you are looking for any vinyl that I can help you out with! I'm probably gonna hang onto my British Invasion lps for a little longer though...anything else I may part with!

[Ted Bell]

Pat,

You got it. I've been going to Sound Exchange since their original tiny location across the street from the current store and know Ron pretty well. They now have 3 locations (I haven't been to the one in Pinellas yet).

I'll E-mail you this evenoing.

Thanks,
Jay

[Andy]

What about a VPI 19jr with an Audioquest P9+ arm? You have a clear upgrade path to the MK IV. The MK IV is a major step above the rega 3.

[Ronflugelguy]

Andy, I'm saving my money for my MKIV upgrade!

[Chris Desjardin]

Does anyone know a good source for a good used turntable? I looked online but didn't find too much. I am also looking for a decent phono stage. I thought music direct and elusive disc sold used stuff, but i can't find anything on their web sites about it. Any help would be appreciated.

[Ted Bell]

Chris,
Check [url]www.audiogon.com. They have a combination of dealers and private sales.

Jay N.

[Chip Stylus]

Anybody heard the Music Hall MMF line? I have heard that Micheal Fremer was impressed with the 2.1 budget model, he seems to have golden ears. I was planning to get a Sumiko, but a couple reviews and one good listen may sway me.