Superbit DVDs?

[efhjr]

I just learned that a couple of my favorite movies -- The Fifth Element and Starship Troopers -- have been reissued on Superbit DVDs.

Is the video quality really that much better? I have a new TV (nothing too fancy, but new and good nonetheless) and am wondering if they're worth looking in to.

[GregY]

I think the answer depends. Depends on your eyes, your equipment and the title in question. I've seen some titles get great reviews, others not so great.

Try searching for some reviews here:
http://www.dvd-basen.dk
or at the Home Theater Forum.

[BGLeduc]

I have both 5th Element's, and I am not sure I would say its a huge difference, but the original was pretty much a reference disc to start with.

I think David Ranada at S&V did a peice about them a while back, and there were certain differences, but you really, really had to look hard.

One percieved advantage of SuperBIT DVD's is that they have DTS tracks, while the original releases do not.

Fifth Element is one. I don't get all wound up over the inclusion of DTS, but a lot of users do.

BGL

[John Moschella]

So much depends on the size/quality of your display. I see a very large difference, I just wish there were more SB titles I want.

[jpm-boston]

Starship Troopers is great in superbit. Excellent sound and picture. If you like the movie you won't be disappointed. Lawrence of Arabia is also great in superbit.

[apesmu]

can somone explain a bit more about the Superbit process? is it the way they encode the discs? and, does it tend to work better w/ films shot in digital rather than analog tape?

[britt2001b]

can somone explain a bit more about the Superbit process? is it the way they encode the discs? and, does it tend to work better w/ films shot in digital rather than analog tape?

Try this :

http://www.sonypictures.com/cthe/superbit/what_is_superbit.html

I have a few superbit titles and the picture is superb on the 16x9 enhanced setting. The DTS sound sounds much better. From my understanding the audio data isn't compressed as much as normal 5.1 digital.

[apesmu]

Try this :

http://www.sonypictures.com/cthe/superbit/what_is_superbit.html

I have a few superbit titles and the picture is superb on the 16x9 enhanced setting. The DTS sound sounds much better. From my understanding the audio data isn't compressed as much as normal 5.1 digital.
thanx!

[Oatsdad]

can somone explain a bit more about the Superbit process? is it the way they encode the discs? and, does it tend to work better w/ films shot in digital rather than analog tape?

There's no such thing as "the Superbit process". It's just a marketing gimmick. These movies are transferred the same as any others - they just get extra bit space on the discs.

Sony took the hated "barebones" DVDs and turned them into a positive. It's a scam, but it's worked.

This doesn't mean I don't sometimes see differences. For example, the SB "Spider-Man" and "Spidey 2" are noticeably better than the regular ones. But there's no magic process behind this - Superbit is nothing more than good advertising.

I've reviewed quite few Superbits - here's an overall search to link to them if anyone's curious:

http://www.dvdmg.com/cgi-bin/search/search.pl?Terms=Superbit

[JohnG]

To me they are only worth buying if you have one of the larger TV's with good electronics behind it.

[BradOlson]

Sorry for the thread crap, but to me, if I want a barebones DVD, I can just get a public domain movie on DVD for $5.50 in the Wal-Mart bargain bin or $1 at the dollar stores. Now back to the scheduled topic: It's amazing they get the hype as "better quality than standard DVD" although what you get are barebones DVDs although some do supposedly offer improvements. But any improvements are subjective just like everything else.

[Mal]

It is incorrect to say that the Superbit DVDs are the same as a "bare bones" release and that they are a "scam".

The point is that the quality of a DVD transfer is not fixed - it is up to the mastering engineer to decide how high the bit-rate should be. This choice depends upon the ammount of space available on the discs. In the case of the Superbit titles they forego the extras in order to make more space on the disc for the video and audio of the feature thus allowing for higher bit-rates and therefore higher quality.

Just because a "bare bones" release doesn't have extras doesn't mean that the studio uses a transfer at a higher bit-rate to take advantage of the available space.......

Furthermore, the titles in the Superbit range are mastered with more care and attention to detail than the standard DVD versions. The best example is the "Lawrence Of Arabia" title where they fixed a problem with the colour timing to match David Lean's original vision more closely.

Don't dismiss the Superbit releases out of hand or you may end up missing some really great DVDs.

:)

[SamS]

There's no such thing as "the Superbit process". It's just a marketing gimmick. These movies are transferred the same as any others - they just get extra bit space on the discs.



Some have found that Columbia's SuperBit process uses less vertical filtering and edge enhancement.

Fifth Element Supebit (http://www.videophile.info/Review/TFE/TFE_01.htm)

Brad,

Sorry for the thread crap, but to me, if I want a barebones DVD, I can just get a public domain movie on DVD for $5.50 in the Wal-Mart bargain bin or $1 at the dollar stores. Now back to the scheduled topic: It's amazing they get the hype as "better quality than standard DVD" although what you get are barebones DVDs although some do supposedly offer improvements. But any improvements are subjective just like everything else.

In many cases, you can compare SuperBits to Steve's AF or other "bare" releases. Sure, you can go and find the 2-disc deluxe version of "Who's Next" that uses compression and all kinds of nasties, but does the $7 bare bones Canadian verision sound infinitely better? Yes! Because care was taken in the transfer and utmost attention given to the sound. Same with sound/picture on many SuperBit titles.

Also, just like the Steve-mastering (audio) analogy, one may have to use a well set-up video (audio) system to truely appreciate the improvements.

[Ed Bishop]

While the 'Superbit' term is a marketing tool to some degree, these are not just 'tossed together' transfers designed to fool fans into buying something twice. The intent is to keep it simple, and offer the best pic and audio quality that often can't be done when a disc is crammed with multiple soundtracks, commentaries, extras and other fun ephemera that nonetheless takes up a lot of space. And when that happens, something's gotta give, and ultimately(and this is especially true with action films), video and audio quality suffers.

LOA is a fine example of not only fixing past mistakes but, by using the 'barebones' approach, the video and audio are as good as can be had under the DVD format, from what I can see and hear. Granted, not every Superbit title is going to be that impressive--sometimes, the differences may be negligible, especially with newer films--but it's a good idea, and it really does come down to the quality of the source material, and then, the mastering. Without the extras in the way, the potential for improvements range from mild to considerable.

:ed:

[John Moschella]

There's no such thing as "the Superbit process". It's just a marketing gimmick. These movies are transferred the same as any others - they just get extra bit space on the discs.

Sony took the hated "barebones" DVDs and turned them into a positive. It's a scam, but it's worked.

This doesn't mean I don't sometimes see differences. For example, the SB "Spider-Man" and "Spidey 2" are noticeably better than the regular ones. But there's no magic process behind this - Superbit is nothing more than good advertising.

I've reviewed quite few Superbits - here's an overall search to link to them if anyone's curious:

http://www.dvdmg.com/cgi-bin/search/search.pl?Terms=Superbit

Colin,
You used to list the review equipment on your site, but I can't find it now. How big is the display you are using for these reviews?

[BradOlson]

As soon as I get a new TV and some component video cables, I'll definitely buy some Superbit titles of titles that I'm sure would be improved with the mastering and source such as Lawrence of Arabia.

[Ken_McAlinden]

Lawrence of Arabia is a special case as they not only increased the bitrate as they do on all Superbit titles, but they also re-color-timed the original transfer from beginning to end in consultation with film restorationist Robert Harris. Desperado was another title where at the time of release, the Superbit was a very different looking transfer, but the improved transfer has since been re-issued on a special edition non-SB release.

Regards,

[Oatsdad]

Colin,
You used to list the review equipment on your site, but I can't find it now. How big is the display you are using for these reviews?

36", so not huge, and I expect that if I had a bigger display, I'd see more substantial difference than I do. Nonetheless, this wouldn't fix the many source flaws that accompany a lot of SB titles.

Everyone loves to trot out "Lawrence of Arabia" to defend the SB line. That's one rare title that used a different transfer/mastering for the SB. The VAST majority utilize the same transfers, which limits any upgrade potential. It's the old "sow's ear/silk purse" deal - toss all the bits you want at a flawed transfer, but it'll still be flawed.

[Oatsdad]

Lawrence of Arabia is a special case as they not only increased the bitrate as they do on all Superbit titles, but they also re-color-timed the original transfer from beginning to end in consultation with film restorationist Robert Harris. Desperado was another title where at the time of release, the Superbit was a very different looking transfer, but the improved transfer has since been re-issued on a special edition non-SB release.

Really? Was it in this "David Lean Collection"?

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0000AGQ72/qid=1105479763/sr=1-5/ref=sr_1_5/103-1326313-3832653?v=glance&s=dvd

[Oatsdad]

In many cases, you can compare SuperBits to Steve's AF or other "bare" releases. Sure, you can go and find the 2-disc deluxe version of "Who's Next" that uses compression and all kinds of nasties, but does the $7 bare bones Canadian verision sound infinitely better? Yes! Because care was taken in the transfer and utmost attention given to the sound. Same with sound/picture on many SuperBit titles.


I still disagree. Again, the vast majority use the same transfers. I see the same source flaws on many of them. I don't understand why so many SB fans are willing to accept the same problematic transfers handed to them again and again - the SB line should include new transfers that correct prior defects.

[Oatsdad]

It is incorrect to say that the Superbit DVDs are the same as a "bare bones" release and that they are a "scam".

No, they're usually bare bones - what else would you call a DVD with no extras? And Sony can't even stay true to their premise, as some titles have included extras on the movie disc. "Spider-Man" had a commentary - what happened to the purity of the SB concept there? :rolleyes:

As for "scam" - that's more subjective. I think it's a remarkable marketing concept that they've turned a concept almost totally viewed as a negative - DVDs with no extras - and made it a hit and a selling point. Anybody else puts out bare bones discs - and sells them for $27 a pop! - and they get reamed. Sony tells us they're "super" and rakes in the bucks. PT Barnum must love it...



Furthermore, the titles in the Superbit range are mastered with more care and attention to detail than the standard DVD versions.

SOME of them are. Not all, or even most.


Don't dismiss the Superbit releases out of hand or you may end up missing some really great DVDs.

:)

I agree with this, but then again, I also think Sony occasionally puts out shoddier product with the non-SB releases to create a market for the SB titles. Other studios manage to create great looking and sounding DVDs with extras on them - why can't Sony? Maybe because they want you to have to buy the same thing twice to get a good-looking version...

[BradOlson]

It's interesting that most Superbit DVDs use the same transfers as the regular line DVDs. I didn't know this. If this is the case, I can get a bargain bin DVD if I want a bare bones DVD. I'll have to ask you guys before I buy any Superbit DVD.

[ACK!]

One percieved advantage of SuperBIT DVD's is that they have DTS tracks, while the original releases do not.

Fifth Element is one. I don't get all wound up over the inclusion of DTS, but a lot of users do.

BGL

DTS is worth getting wound up over...trust me. Sometimes it's JUST as good as Dolby Digital, but when it's better, it-is-well-worth-it!

[SuperMusicFan2003]

I'll chime in here and say that both The Fifth Element and Starship Troopers are excellent superbit titles and are much better than their original releases, especially when it comes to sound, but picture too. Another title worth checking out is the Mel Gibson movie "The Patriot".

[Ken_McAlinden]

Really? Was it in this "David Lean Collection"?

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0000AGQ72/qid=1105479763/sr=1-5/ref=sr_1_5/103-1326313-3832653?v=glance&s=dvdNope. That has the barebones non-Superbit single disc release which uses the same transfer as the original 2-disc limited edition DVD but with a lower bitrate. The only way currently to get the re-timed transfer is via the Superbit.

Regards,