Looking for comments from Steve and others on cartridge FR

[Beagle]

I was just looking for some comments from Steve and other cartridge owners (specifically the Shure V15VMR) on cartridge frequency response.

I own several, but for the last few evenings I have been listening to the V15VMR and comparing the tonality and frequency response to some SACD's.

I find the Shure's response and tonality to be very close to SACD, whereas some others (Benz, Grado Ortofon) seem to have a "spike" in certain areas that gives the impression of speed, fast transients or warmth.

The V15 seems to give equal measure and you do not think in terms of bass, midband and treble. Each seems of a piece with the other. Some of the other cartridges seem more "exciting" but I am wondering if this is due to an emphasis in certain areas of the spectrum which gives the impression of speed and "attack" but in actuality is deviating from neutrality and thus reality.

Does this sound correct?

I am of the opinion that some cartridges that are "more open and transparent" are only so because they put an emphasis on the areas of the spectrum that 'highlight' detail in those areas (like upper midband). Or ones that are warm and musical and emphasising the lower mid/upper bass area. Some moving coils have a "built-in" excitement that is appealing but not correct. If the cartridge is not flat, how do I know what's really the balance on the record?

Comments?

[Steve Hoffman]

I only use a Shure V15 in my work.

The only really neutral cartridge out there.

If I want EQ, I'll add it myself.

As you said:

"Some moving coils have a "built-in" excitement that is appealing but not correct. If the cartridge is not flat, how do I know what's really the balance on the record?"

[vex]

Well, I don't think using SACD's as something to measure against for neutrality is an accurate test. While I totally LOVE the sound of SACD's, I do not feel that they are neutral at all. Maybe it's just my player, but I think SACD's sound very sweet and warm, to the point of being very "tube-like". From my experience, SACD's have that same seductive quality that I attribute to tubes.

The tonal and speed characteristics you are noting between cartridges are certainly real and valid. However, if you find the performance of the Shure V15VMR closely resembling SACD then I would reach the conclusion that this cartridge is not neutral, contrary to what you and Steve are saying.

Just my own observations, and I could be wrong. I'm not a professional or anything but I do trust my ears. But, like I said, it could be my player... I need to listen to SACD on some other players... I don't get that "sweet" sensation with redbook CD's on the same player. Actually, in this situation, I would call performance very neutral. I think DVD-A's sound very neutral. I wouldn't call my cartridge neutral, but rather lively, involving with exquisite resolution. I like the slight coloration it offers very, very much.

[Beagle]

Originally posted by vex
Well, I don't think using SACD's as something to measure against for neutrality is an accurate test. While I totally LOVE the sound of SACD's, I do not feel that they are neutral at all. Maybe it's just my player, but I think SACD's sound very sweet and warm, to the point of being very "tube-like". From my experience, SACD's have that same seductive quality that I attribute to tubes.

The tonal and speed characteristics you are noting between cartridges are certainly real and valid. However, if you find the performance of the Shure V15VMR closely resembling SACD then I would reach the conclusion that this cartridge is not neutral, contrary to what you and Steve are saying.I found the balance and tonality to be similar. That is, no obvious peaks or colorations. I don't find any particular "sound" with my SACD's. Some are dull, some are bright, some are neither. Depends on the recording. I find the "body" of the recording to be fairly close on both the V15 and SACD, when comparing the LP version with the SACD.

With the other cartridges, this comparison reveals particular sonic "thumbprints" of each. Some of these deviations from neutral are musically appealing at times. But they are not flat or neutral, although every component has a certain "character" in some way.

[vex]

Yeah, I've had the same experience with SACD's sounding bright/dull/whatever depending on the recording. Beyond that, they have what I would term a sweet glaze, a quality I do not notice with my LP's or CD's of the same title. The LP will have a characteristic all its own depending the cartridge, etc., but I've played around with enough different configuarions in my life to know when something sounds different. SACD's are certainly in a class all their own and they sound fantastic. Perhaps it's everything else that is off? I dunno, but my own perception is that they all sound slightly colored. Again, could just be my player...