Steve, any adventures in 5:1 Surround Sound mixing you can share with us?

[Angel]

Steve,

Are you having fun yet?

[Steve Hoffman]

No, not really.

There are no RULES! We need rules, damn it! Chaos vs. Cosmos and all that...We need rules in mixing this stuff AND you need rules in playing it back so it will sound like we mixed it to sound.

No two playback systems are alike.

The "center channel" speaker doesn't match the tonality of the front left and right speakers.

The back speakers don't match the tonality of the front speakers, or do they? How the hell can I mix something to be balanced if you at home are using smaller or different speakers in the rear?

Where are you sitting when you listen? If you are not sitting EXACTLY where I was when I mixed, the mix will be off for you.

Is your system set up right? All levels correct? If not, the mix will be off.

Crapshoot at best.

I won't even get into subs right now. Sigh....

In the best world, all five speakers should be exactly the same. How many times is THAT going to happen? Not too many, eh?

I could go on.

Anything positive to report?

Stay tuned!

;)

[Sckott]

In my brave stint with DTS (both Quad Reel coversions and home-ade Quad using DTS authoring software) it's really a crapshoot, definately.

Some quads sound absolutely amazing while others sound absolutely horrible and "wonky". It's actually interesting, but the 5.1 mix can make or break the presentaion, unless the 2.1 stereo mix is strong. Some setups are more friendly to strong L & R while some have poor surround L&R speaks. The same could be said for movies too....

I still love the sound of the Q4 of The Moody Blues "On The Theshold Of A Dream". Something just makes that one neat to listen to.

[vex]

Yeah, the variables and problems seem to increase beyond exponential as you add more channels. The pitfalls are more plentiful and dangerous but the potential rewards are greater and more satisfying.

Nothing would thrill me more than to see a Hoffman-mastered multi-channel SACD or DVD-A. If you want to minimize the problems, just go for a 4.0 mix. That's been my favorite anyway. Too much confusion and lack of standarization for the center channel. However, I wouldn't balk at a 4.1 mix either...

:cool:

[RDK]

I guess the only solution is for all of us to go over to Steve's place to listen to the surround sound mix!

:D

[Angel]

Originally posted by Steve Hoffman


There are no RULES! We need rules, damn it! Chaos vs. Cosmos and all that...We need rules in mixing this stuff AND you need rules in playing it back so it will sound like we mixed it to sound.

No two playback systems are alike.

The "center channel" speaker doesn't match the tonality of the front left and right speakers.

The back speakers don't match the tonality of the front speakers, or do they? How the hell can I mix something to be balanced if you at home are using smaller or different speakers in the rear?

Where are you sitting when you listen? If you are not sitting EXACTLY where I was when I mixed, the mix will be off for you.

Is your system set up right? All levels correct? If not, the mix will be off.

Crapshoot at best.

I won't even get into subs right now. Sigh....

In the best world, all five speakers should be exactly the same. How many times is THAT going to happen? Not too many, eh?

I could go on.




Steve,

I'm not worried.

In your hands it's going to be great!

[Paul L.]

Steve,

As you know, some of these problems are there with mono or stereo too. Nobody is going to hear it the exact same way as you did in your home or the studio. Even if we had the same equipment, we have different rooms. Even if we had the same room dimensions, we all have different ears and some different opinions on what something should sound like.

But as far as the problems inherent with multi-channel: You have to pretend that people are going to sit in the sweet spot with levels set right. You can't mix for an infinite number of bad positions and bad levels. And you have to assume that the listener's speakers are the same tonally, even if they aren't, because the alternative would be to guess what kind of tone differences there would be in an extraordinary number of possibilities.

My vote is to keep the center channel and lose the sub. The sub is for explosions and stuff like that in movies.

Also, don't sweat it too much. You're going to have a dedicated stereo mix, too, if you're talking SACD, so if the surround displeases on any individual's system, there's always an alternative.

[MagicAlex]

Originally posted by Paul L.
My vote is to keep the center channel and lose the sub. The sub is for explosions and stuff like that in movies.

This will not work for those with small speakers.

[vex]

I respectfully disagree concerning the sub. They ain't just for explosions. My main speakers extend pretty low into the bass range, but when I'm listening to music with even a mediocre amout of bass involvement, the sub will almost always reveal detail I would otherwise be losing. Of course, the sub must be blended correctly with the rest of your system. People have a tendency to crank the sub up too much or set the crossover point incorrectly. It is hard to set it correctly by ear. If you can get your hands on a spectrum analyzer to help get a proper sub blend, I can just about guarantee that you will never go back to listening to music without your sub.

I say ditch the center and keep the sub. However, I won't complain too loudly if you ditch the sub as well. ;)

[Sckott]

I have to agree here. A 4.0/4.1 mix would fair better in trying to get more accuracy in more systems at once. Going for the 5.1 is nice, but gets wacky trying to get things right.

Makes you wanna hang yer head and cry. :(

[JohnT]

I utilize bookshelf size speakers up front, and small guys out back along with a sub. I noticed a much tighter/cleaner sound after introducing the outlaw ICBM unit into the mix. Seems that my speakers were distorting somewhat when asked to go below their cutoff. The ICBM relieved them of that problem then passed the low frequencies to the sub. After a good calibrating session, I felt comfortible with most multi-channel mixes and sometimes prefer the multi over the stereo.

Snell model J's upfront, NHT center & superzero rears, Paradigm sub.