King Crimson (best of two)

[syogusr]

Which one of the following two are the readers and listeners here favorites? 1973s Larks Tongues in Aspic, or 1974s Starless and Bible Black, and why?
What would be your fav KC altogether?

[JJ3810]

"LARKS TONGUES IN ASPIC"; definitely, not even close. Next would be "RED". Both classics and both sound GREAT in this last remastered version.

[Tony Caldwell]

Hi,

Unlike most KC fans, I like the KC stuff with Adrian Belew the most.

My favorite is Discipline.

Tony

[Paul K]

I saw the Discipline tour when I was 14. (do the math!) It was an amazing night. I remember that this was at the Concert Hall (same place The Canadian show "Open Mike with Mike Bullard" is shot, Zeppelin played here too!) The crowd were so appreciative of Fripp et co. even being there that he could not make a speach to address the audience because they would not stop giving him a standing ovation that went on for 3 minutes. And yes, he WAS smiling.

I love every period of their career. Have astounded me for years. Love the sound of those remasters. Sound favourable with my first gen. Brit pressings.

Now that the master of Side One of Court has been found, anyone know what they are gonna do with it?

[vex]

Both "Larks Tongues" and "Starless" are phenomenal KC albums, but I do prefer "Larks Tongues" myself. It's hard to pick a fave KC album, but "Larks Tongues" certainly hits the top of my list more than any other.

The reason I like it? It is totally cerebral. It is sinister and scary. It simultaneously mesmerizes you and makes you want to run for cover. It is fingernails-on-the-chalkboard aggrivating yet seduces you with manic-genius composition and guitar work. You have to work to listen to it but it works on you to make you listen. It ties you down and won't let you leave, and when it's over, you're left a sweating mess. That's why I like it.

[Michael]

Any Opinions on the Best Sounding (If Possible) CD of "Court Of The Crimson King"? So far every CD version sounds Harsh and Shrill.

[HeavyDistortion]

I like all of the John Wetton era Crimson releases a great deal, but prefer "Red" the best, because it features some of Robert Fripp's heaviest and powerful guitar work in basically a trio format. Also, I love "The Great Deceiver" live box set from 1973-74, because it shows how great that version of the band was live, and it includes a lot of excellent previously unreleased material.




HeavyDistortion

[ultron9]

I'd also have to pick "Lark's Tongue..." in a pinch. As others have pointed out, "Red" is also amongst the best of the '70s era Crimson. The live "Absent Lovers" is also a favorite featuring the last of the '84 band's performances.

The Fripp remasters are very good indeed, gone is the high end screech of the earlier "Definitive Edition" series.

[Juan]

I prefer LTIA, may be because it was the first one with Wetton, Bruford & Cross that I heard, but may be because for me it is THE KC LP. Great songs, great playing and great sound! SABB is very good too but I advice every one to get The Great Deciver 4 CD box. It is like "The complete SABB sessions". Remember that this LP was recorded live but with the applauses erased.

[SVL]

I couldn't never really get into the Wetton period albums, to be honest. Lizard is my favorite KC album, followed by In the Court..., Islands, and then either Beat or Three of a Perfect Pair.

[Metralla]

I was into them from the start - I was 19 when "In the Court of the Crimson King" came out. I thought the next one, "In the Wake of Poseiden" was even better. I did buy "Lizard", which was not stellar, but after a while I seemed to lose interest in this group. I never had another of their records, and despite hearing them a few times at friends' places, I found them not to my taste.

The first two are the only ones I'd buy.

Regards,
Metralla

[Ben]

1. Court of the Crimson King Best Version: MOFI Vinyl, followed by the 30th Anniversary CD.

2. Larks Tounges in Aspic Best: Japanese Vinyl

3. Red Best: Limited Edition Vinyl (Black Cover)

4. Lizard Best: Japan Vinyl

5. Discipline Best: Japan Vinyl

6. In the Wake... Best: Japan Vinyl

7. Starless and.... Best: 30th Anniversary CD.

8. Islands Best: Japan Vinyl




Enjoy!

[Michael]

Originally posted by Ben
1. Court of the Crimson King Best Version: MOFI Vinyl, followed by the 30th Anniversary CD.

2. Larks Tounges in Aspic Best: Japanese Vinyl

3. Red Best: Limited Edition Vinyl (Black Cover)

4. Lizard Best: Japan Vinyl

5. Discipline Best: Japan Vinyl

6. In the Wake... Best: Japan Vinyl

7. Starless and.... Best: 30th Anniversary CD.

8. Islands Best: Japan Vinyl




Enjoy!

Are you referring to the Mini LP CD ?

[TommyTunes]

As a KC fan from day one, ITCOTKC remains my all time favorite. After that LP, Islands, has always been my second pick. With the release of numerous Island's era lineup live shows via the KC collectors club, I have grown even more fond of the Mel Collins lineup. Of the two mentioned in this thread, I much prefer Larks.
The recent Bio Book on the band makes for interesting reading although a bit dry.

[vex]

I bought up all the 30th anniversary remasters, and they all sound pretty darn good (not as good as the Japanese vinyl, but then you're comparing apples and oranges.) Also, I agree that the best sounding ITCOTCK is the MOFI vinyl.

The only 30th anniversary remaster that I didn't really care for was ITCOTCK. It sounds very flat, almost muddy sounding. There is an incredible amount of tape hiss. To Robert's credit, he probably listened to previous remaster criticism and just did a straight tape transfer, warts and all. Still, I have to wonder about the master used. Either the tape has not aged well or a multi-generation master was employed.

One last bit of trivia. All the 30th anniversary remasters were done with HDCD EXCEPT ITCOTCK. I wish this were not the case, since I love all the HDCD issues.

[John B]

Originally posted by vex

I Still, I have to wonder about the master used....... Either the tape has not aged well or a multi-generation master was employed.



I have lifted a quote from John Buchanan on an earlier thread which appears well-informed (hope that's okay John!):

"The Definitive Edition (DE)versions used the same tape as the Polydor vinyl, and are to be avoided at all costs. The first DE version used so much NoNoise to remove these noises, that the result reduced the sound from near refence quality to a badly aligned early 60's casette tape. The second version used the same tapes, but deleted the NoNoise to reveal the tape grumbles in all their glory. The 30th Anniversary version uncovered the original Command studios master tape, which had no extraneous tape noises, and sounds very good.
Incidentally, the stereo master of side 1 of In the Court of the Crimson King was found recently, so we may hear a better version of that album at some stage."

I was particularly intrigued by the final sentence. Seems we have never heard the master tape. There was a fair bit of bouncing going on before the master tape was reached.

[John B]

Here's an interesting link on the recording of In the Court of the Crimson King:

http://www.mixarchives.com/archives/viewSEARCH.asp?UserName=cq&UserID=B78fAZ9545uQqXWBXbCyU6610969&s=y&search=king+crimson&path=/1998/features/&file=10classictracks.html

[John Buchanan]

The quote lifted above referred to the DE version of Islands.
Hopefully we will see an advertised improvement in ITCOTCK (unlike the changes in Islands between DE1 and DE2)
I'd like to have heard mint 1st pressing Island vinyl to compare against the Japanese vinyl. I was not that impressed with the latter. Over to Tom....

[vex]

I have Japanese pressings of "Larks Tongues", "Starless", and "Red". I found "Larks Tongues" and "Starless" to be exquisite and "Red" to be marginal (not much better than my U.S. press which is a reissue). Later I was able to acquire an original U.K. press of "Larks Tongues" and I still prefer the Japanese press. I cannot comment on the remaining catalog available from Japan.

[John Buchanan]

Most issues of LTIA are very compressed. Have a look at the grooves of the Island LTIA and compare them with a Polydor copy. You can see what they had to cut at the first very loud crescendo on LTIA1. It became slightly loud on Polydor. These comments apply to all Polydor reissues of Island KC originals.

[krabapple]

Originally posted by syogusr
Which one of the following two are the readers and listeners here favorites? 1973s Larks Tongues in Aspic, or 1974s Starless and Bible Black, and why?
What would be your fav KC altogether?

I like Starless & BB -- it's got more tracks. ;>

Also, much of it was recorded live in concert, thlugh you wouldn't know it from the credits!

Thw whole of side two -- the title improvisation, and 'Fracture' -- is probably my favorite 'side' of KC.

[krabapple]

Originally posted by Juan
I prefer LTIA, may be because it was the first one with Wetton, Bruford & Cross that I heard, but may be because for me it is THE KC LP. Great songs, great playing and great sound! SABB is very good too but I advice every one to get The Great Deciver 4 CD box. It is like "The complete SABB sessions". Remember that this LP was recorded live but with the applauses erased.

Not quite. "Great Deceiver', 'Lament', and most of 'The Night Watch' are studio tracks. The rest are live, but from different shows. To get the 'honest' live versions of 'Trio' , 'Starless & Bible Black' and 'Fracture', you have to get 'The Night Watch' CD set (Amsterdam Concertgebouw Nov 23 1973). The "Great Deceiver' boxed set has the original live recordings of "We'll Let You KNow' and the improv from which 'The Mincer' was made (Zurich 1973, IIRC).

[John Buchanan]

The Great Deceiver is a wonderful box and one of the few sets where you get to hear RF's sense of humour (compare this with the Projects set which shows him whinging about photographers).
It's beautifully recorded also (the great George Chkiantz) and well packaged. Bill Bruford's bass drum thumps you in the chest - it's one of the few albums with really deep bass (Live Evil (War Pigs on Warners 2CD) by Black Sabbath and Falling Off The Roof (Our Spanish Love Song) by the Ginger Baker Trio are two others) The only improvisation I really miss is Asbury Park from USA, which will hopefully be released soon on USA remastered.
Anyone care to comment on the Collectors Club CDs? I have fourteen of these.