Pet Sounds question for Steve or anyone who knows

[Dugan]

I recently found a copy of Pet Sounds and was simply wondering why "Hang On To Your Ego" was the only bonus track used? (Since the original Capitol version also included "Trombone Dixie" and the" Don't Talk unreleased backgrounds".)

[John Oteri]

Which Pet Sounds are you talking about exactly?

If it is the DCC, I know they didn't want to put any bonus tracks on there, but decided to put just one. Trombone Dixie is pretty pointless and delutes a classic album.

The album stands on its own, eh?

[lukpac]

My guess is the CD we're talking about is the new mono/stereo version.

Could it be with both mono and stereo versions more bonus tracks wouldn't fit? I don't have my copy handy to check the timing on it.

[mcow1]

Originally posted by lukpac
My guess is the CD we're talking about is the new mono/stereo version.

Could it be with both mono and stereo versions more bonus tracks wouldn't fit? I don't have my copy handy to check the timing on it.
Luke,
I only have the DCC how is the mono/stereo version.
Thanks,
Mike

[lukpac]

Originally posted by mcow1
I only have the DCC how is the mono/stereo version.

Well, I don't have the DCC, nor have I compared the tracks from the Razor & Tie CD.

However, based on what others have said and the other CDs I've heard, I'd venture to say if you're looking for the mono mix, stick with the DCC.

Of course, if you want the stereo mix (which is great IMO), you'll need either the box set or the new mono/stereo disc.

[Matt]

The mono is definitely better on the DCC because, well, heck, it was done on tubes, not solid state, so you get all the advantages that usually comes with that. Nice warm, well-rounded, full-bodied sound. The mono/stereo CD that McMaster is credited for isn't bad. Haven't heard the Gastwirt one encoded in HDCD (the McMaster CD was out for only a year; didn't have HDCD encoding, even though the Pet Sounds Sessions box from the previous year had all HDCD encoding.) The Gastwirt one not only "restores" the HDCD encoding, but supposedly some changes were made in the stereo mix. There was talk of mixing up the vocals a bit, due to numerous suggestions/complaints made to those involved, and supposedly the bridge of "Wouldn't It Be Nice" is once again sung by Mike Love, not Brian Wilson, just like the mono mix. Originally, it was said that Brian's vocal had to be used because that was all they had that could be used, but I guess they figured out a way to use Mike's vocals.

I was swept up by the stereo mix at first, but Steve really turned my head about this one when he talked about compression. Things really do sound too apart, not in spatial terms, but you can really tell that certain things weren't recorded together. With the mono mix, the sounds feel like they could've been made simultaneously in the same room. Stereo mix still ain't bad, but if I listen to the mono mix first, it sounds real artificial to me.

[guy incognito]

Yeah, the only place to get "Trombone Dixie" now is on the Pet Sounds Sessions box set. It's a stereo mix there, unlike the version on the old PS CD which was mono.

The new HDCD mono/stereo disc is an improvement over the McMaster version IMO, but still not close to Hoffmanesque. A bit on the bright side, but at least this time Gastwirt didn't employ no-noising.

I would agree that the original mono is still the best way to hear that album, although I do enjoy the stereo as well. Yes, Matt, the new disc does restore Love's vocals to the "Wouldn't It Be Nice" bridge, but it does so by electonically synching the new stereo multitrack to the original mono full-track, and the result is a jumbled-sounding mess. IMO, they should've just accepted the limitations of what they had to work with and left Carl's vocals intact on the stereo mix. Hell, I'd rather hear Carl than Mike anyway. :D

[John Oteri]

Matt,

I felt the same way you did about the stereo version. Loved it at first, and then I realized that it's like an Italian sauce that has not simmered yet!

The original mono Phil Spector-like version is the only one for me.

Of course Steve's version is the one I play the most (he's one of my best friends in case you were wondering) :) but I like his version because it allows the magic of the vocals to shine through and the backing music "keeps it's place" just like on a Spector record. And if anyone wanted that Spector "wall", it was Brian Wilson, right?

[czeskleba]

Originally posted by guy incognito
Yes, Matt, the new disc does restore Love's vocals to the "Wouldn't It Be Nice" bridge, but it does so by electonically synching the new stereo multitrack to the original mono full-track, and the result is a jumbled-sounding mess. IMO, they should've just accepted the limitations of what they had to work with and left Carl's vocals intact on the stereo mix. Hell, I'd rather hear Carl than Mike anyway. :D

It was Brian, not Carl, whose voice was replacing Mike's on the first stereo version. And apparently it was Mike who demanded his vocals be restored, resulting in that "jumbled-sounding mess" you describe. Supposedly a lot of radio stations have been playing the stereo version (because modern listeners want stereo, right?) and Mike was worried that the version without his voice would become the "definitive" version if they didn't replace it with a stereo mix that featured him. Mike has *always* hung onto his ego, eh?

[lukpac]

Originally posted by Matt
I was swept up by the stereo mix at first, but Steve really turned my head about this one when he talked about compression. Things really do sound too apart, not in spatial terms, but you can really tell that certain things weren't recorded together. With the mono mix, the sounds feel like they could've been made simultaneously in the same room. Stereo mix still ain't bad, but if I listen to the mono mix first, it sounds real artificial to me.

Umm, actually, for the most part, every WAS recorded together live. There weren't very many overdubs. Other than the vocals, of course.

Call me crazy, but the mono mix just doesn't do much for me. While those sessions were recorded very nicely, I've always felt that a LOT was lost in the mono mix in terms of fidelity, beyond simply being in mono. Drives me nuts. Of course, Good Vibrations is even worse, but...

[ascot]

Does anyone know if the finished version of "Hang on to Your Ego" was issued in stereo? There's a mono mix w/ vocals and a stereo instrumental mix that are on the PS box, and the mono mix was used on other PS releases.

[dbryant]

I especially like how the mono mix works with the arrangement to make the strings on Don't Talk (Put Your Head On My Shoulder) sound bigger. They just sound like a little chamber group over in the corner on the stereo.

[Dugan]

I was talking about the DCC. I also have the 1990 issue and the Sessions set, plus a counterfit of the Sessions sampler. I also have some McCartney and Badfinger DCC's which include the bonus tracks, which I believe had something to do with Capitol.
If I remember right the Japanese issue came out earlier with only " Hang On To Your Ego " as a bonus track.

[Vivaldinization]

Originally posted by Dugan
I was talking about the DCC. I also have the 1990 issue and the Sessions set, plus a counterfit of the Sessions sampler. I also have some McCartney and Badfinger DCC's which include the bonus tracks, which I believe had something to do with Capitol.
If I remember right the Japanese issue came out earlier with only " Hang On To Your Ego " as a bonus track.

Random question: how does one tell if their version of the Sessions sampler is counterfeit?

-D

[nashreed]

Without digging mine out from the "most valuable" section of the vault :) ,the easiest way to tell the real sampler from a bootleg/counterfeit would be the common "Manufactured by EMI" in the inner ring of the CD. EMD CD's have a certain look and feel to them, as I find all five majors to have different looks/feels to them. Obviously the WEA jewel case, and the different inner rings of all the labels CD's. I remember EMD for a time used kind of a "speckled" looking jewel case tray...Anyway, I find it pretty easy to tell a real major label CD (promo included) from a fake bootleg- it's pretty easy.

nashreed

[Pat]

Originally posted by David Goodwin


Random question: how does one tell if their version of the Sessions sampler is counterfeit?

-D


Sorry for the LARGE picture! :D

Mine has a "silkscreened" tape/reel on the CD itself with NO other writing at all! The others I've seen have Capitol logos and writing on the CD. I am hesitant to call it a bootleg/counterfeit though. High quality printing (what there is of it). Sound is phenomenal too! Perhaps an "early run" is what I would say it is.

Then again,
No track #8 listed...and 2 #16s...err...aah! :rolleyes:

[BradOlson]

If anybody did buy a legitimate copy of the Pet Sounds Sessions, I'd be willing to pay for shipping on one of these counterfeits or a legit copy of the Pet Sounds Sessions sampler.

[Sckott]

Pat,

You have a legit promo copy of the Pet Sounds Sessions Sampler.

The Pet Sounds Sessions box is in HDCD and is still in print. I have it, and it's possibly the most revealing Beach Boys "fan item" record-wize, not for the amazing ammount of content in the green box, but the interviews with the musicians like Hal, Carol and even the Beach Boys themselves. They have one mini-book inside about 1/2 the thickness of a TV Guide, and then the details book with rare photos and some explinations to the technical ideas of how the Stereo mix was made, and some roundabout detail of Pet Sounds itself (like the session info).

The DCC (I have also the DCC vinyl and CD) is fairly amazing, as this was one of THE examples on how Steve focuses in on vocals to get the right sound. The content in this box cannot be missed. The "vocal only" of "Wouldn't It Be Nice" still puts chills in my spine. Buy one!

I got mine at half.com before I got frustrated with the site. :P

[Dugan]

Mine came in a cardboard cover, no jewelcase and no Capitol markings. The disc itself has the Compact Disc symbol at the top with FOR PROMOTIONAL USE ONLY underneath it. At the bottom it jut says Rarities. No mention of Capitol, the Beach Boys or serial number.
I also got it when they were saying that the Box set might not get released due to a certain band member (Gee I'd LOVE to know which one, maybe Dennis :D) and that it would be the only way to hear the stereo mix.

[SamS]

I didn't see this pointed out anywere, but the Pet Sound Sessions sampler is NOT HDCD encoded. Mine is in a regular jewel case and definitely not a fake. I got it from the record label when I worked at a CD store in college.

[Vivaldinization]

Oy. So it's pretty inconclusive then, eh?

-D

[Jeffrey]

Originally posted by lukpac


Call me crazy, but the mono mix just doesn't do much for me. While those sessions were recorded very nicely, I've always felt that a LOT was lost in the mono mix in terms of fidelity, beyond simply being in mono. Drives me nuts. Of course, Good Vibrations is even worse, but...

Hi Luke,

Surprised that you feel that way. Here's why.... Brian Wilson is a musical genius and made great use of the studio on this recording. This may have been his finest hour. The mono mix was the way Mr. Wilson meant for it to be heard and the stereo mix loses the true character/integrity of the recording.

Another view,
Jeffrey

[lukpac]

Originally posted by Jeffrey
Surprised that you feel that way. Here's why.... Brian Wilson is a musical genius and made great use of the studio on this recording. This may have been his finest hour. The mono mix was the way Mr. Wilson meant for it to be heard and the stereo mix loses the true character/integrity of the recording.

Sorry, this is just one case where I don't buy the whole "this was his vision" stuff. The mono mix just doesn't really cut it for me, plain and simple. What was put down on the tapes sounded great, but that mono mix just doesn't.

And, if you really want to argue things, Brian *did* supervise and approve the stereo mix.

[Jeffrey]

Originally posted by lukpac


Sorry, this is just one case where I don't buy the whole "this was his vision" stuff. The mono mix just doesn't really cut it for me, plain and simple. What was put down on the tapes sounded great, but that mono mix just doesn't.

And, if you really want to argue things, Brian *did* supervise and approve the stereo mix.

Hi Luke,

Given that the recording was mixed in mono what else could have "his vision" been? Certainly not supervising and approving a stereo mix 30 yrs. after the fact?

-Jeffrey

[Bob Lovely]

Originally posted by Jeffrey


Hi Luke,

Given that the recording was mixed in mono what else could have "his vision" been? Certainly not supervising and approving a stereo mix 30 yrs. after the fact?

-Jeffrey

Jeffrey,

I have always been under the impression that Brian was a fan of Phil Spector and that Mono was his preference and vision for Pet Sounds and other Beach Boys recordings from those years. I really enjoy the Mono mix as mastered by Steve but, I have the Pet Sounds box and I also enjoy the Stereo mixes as well. The Mono is important to have because it is the historical record of the final product. To my ears, as mastered by Steve it has layers and is very thick. The Stereo mixes bring out the details, layers and textures of what was laid-down on the multi-tracks to a more defined level, in my opinion.

Bob