Remasters From Hell

[Joseph]

This forum has yielded lots of great info on well mastered music. We all have been disappointed by new remasters that purport to be improvements.

What remasters have you heard that should be avoided since the original issues sound better? Let's exclude Steve's work since it generally always sounds better.

My first contribution is Billie Holiday Songs For Distingue Lovers. The new Verve remaster with bonus tracks takes the wide stereo of the original and the Classic Gold Cd and congeals it in the middle turning it almost into mono. Not a pretty sonic sight!

[John B]

Hi Tangent,

Good idea for a thread.

The first things that come to mind are compilations:

"Oh What a Feeling" (Canadian four disc set) sounded bad - compressed, lifeless, harsh and they used inferior sources for some of the older songs. Ian and Sylvia's Four Strong Winds sounds very good on my Vanguard CD but sounds awful on OWAF.

Multi-performer compilations in general can be horrible unless they're from Sundazed or other specialists.

I'll dig through my collection for other discs not to buy.

[joelee]

Song in the Key of Life-Stevie Wonder

[mcow1]

All Things Must Pass. The original wasn't all that hot either but it beats the heck outta the remaster.

[Grant]

Originally posted by joelee
Song in the Key of Life-Stevie Wonder

And we're not going to hear a good remastering of Stevie Wonder material on CD. The master tapes are deteriorating and Stevie won't give up the multis for remixing. He's just not interested. All Motown has are bad second generation copies of the master two-tracks. Harry Weigner EQ'ed the copies for the latest remasters. I personally think he overdid the highs on the first four. "Songs..." sounds better but etched. "Hotter Than July", a digital recording, sounds much better than any LP or CD of it released before. "Original Musiquarium" is just plain awful, soundwise.

[John B]

Originally posted by Grant


And we're not going to hear a good remastering of Stevie Wonder material on CD. The master tapes are deteriorating and Stevie won't give up the multis for remixing. He's just not interested. All Motown has are bad second generation copies of the master two-tracks. Harry Weigner EQ'ed the copies for the latest remasters. I personally think he overdid the highs on the first four. "Songs..." sounds better but etched. "Hotter Than July", a digital recording, sounds much better than any LP or CD of it released before. "Original Musiquarium" is just plain awful, soundwise.

Grant,

I'm not trying to be funny but I thought you wouldn't want to see remixes of Motown stuff. Surely a bad second generation copy would be preferable?

[Ken_McAlinden]

I'm not trying to be funny but I thought you wouldn't want to see remixes of Motown stuff. Surely a bad second generation copy would be preferable?If the masters have deteriorated beyond usability, then a remix using the copies as a guide may be the best bet for a quality release. Something along the lines of what was done with the Simon and Garfunkel remixes, for instance.

Regards,

[John B]

Originally posted by Ken_McAlinden
If the masters have deteriorated beyond usability, then a remix using the copies as a guide may be the best bet for a quality release. Something along the lines of what was done with the Simon and Garfunkel remixes, for instance.

Regards,

I agree completely Ken. Grant and I have disagreed on the subject in other threads so I was curious as to his opinion (in a friendly way). I like what was done with S & G.

[John B]

Originally posted by mcow1
All Things Must Pass. The original wasn't all that hot either but it beats the heck outta the remaster.

Mike,

I significantly preferred the remaster when compared to my original US CD which, rumour has it, was from a third generation copy. I was, however, still disappointed with the sound.
Many here blame Jon Astley, which my well be fair. I suspect the original master doesn't sound good with all of Phil Spector's overdubbing and bouncing.

[d. brasco]

Originally posted by joelee
Song in the Key of Life-Stevie Wonder
I don't think it sounds all that bad. On the other hand, the following are truly dreadful:

Bob Seger Live Bullet
John Mayall's Bluesbreakers with Eric Clapton (2001 U.S. remaster)
The Harder They Come (also 2001, done by the same crew as the Mayall)

The first two are shrill beyond belief, and the third is pretty bad. The Toots & the Maytals tracks, for instance, sound much fuller on other CDs.

Don

[John Buchanan]

I too liked the ATMP remaster more than the unbelievably dull original CD, but I wish John Astley (and Peter Mew) would pull the plug on the NoNoise. The original Apple UK vinyl box heard in the past had all sorts of vinyl "tearing" noises throughout a characteristic of a fair number of EMI pressings.
Don - did you hear the MoFi gold Bluesbreakers? It sounds very warm on my system, but the cover reproduction is typically grainy and sub par. Haven't heard the 2001 remaster - John Astley at the NoNoise?
Maybe Steve could redo this one? Hmmmmm...

[John B]

Is the EC John Mayall that bad, I wanted to buy it as I don't have a copy yet. Which is the CD to get?

[Gary]

Anything on Purple Pyramid records. I have two of their gold discs (Deep Purple and Yes).... uggghhh!

[d. brasco]

Originally posted by John B
Is the EC John Mayall that bad, I wanted to buy it as I don't have a copy yet. Which is the CD to get?
It's the UK version, remastered by--of all people--Jon Astley in (I believe) 1997. It's got the entire album in mono and stereo versions (24 tracks), and it blows away the U.S. remaster--not even close. I got mine from importcds.com.

Don

[John B]

Originally posted by d. brasco

It's the UK version, remastered by--of all people--Jon Astley in (I believe) 1997. It's got the entire album in mono and stereo versions (24 tracks), and it blows away the U.S. remaster--not even close. I got mine from importcds.com.

Don

Thanks Don.

That's the one I'll buy - gotta love this site for this kind of interchange.

[Kym]

Speaking of Stevie Wonder, was the gold MoFi of Innervisions done from the true original master tape? It certainly sounds so.

[Steve Hoffman]

Yes, but remember, the "master" in that case was actually a composite of several mixes segued together. So, whenever two songs blend into each other on "Innervisions", that part at least is second generation.

Still sounds great, eh?

[John Buchanan]

For a comparison of Bluesbreakers versions, have a peek atBeano Remastered: 1994, 1998 & 2001 (http://twtd.bluemountains.net.au/cream/Fresh/beanoreleases.html)
It's a great site (and has only a very small amount of input from yours truly.) Blind Faith is to come, according to Graeme Pattingale who runs it.

[Kym]

Originally posted by Steve Hoffman
Yes, but remember, the "master" in that case was actually a composite of several mixes segued together. So, whenever two songs blend into each other on "Innervisions", that part at least is second generation.

Still sounds great, eh?

Ah yes – thank you, Steve, for correcting my wrong use of terminology there. :rolleyes: I understand what you mean.

That gold MoFi sounds absolutely beautiful, even in my car!

On another Wonder note, I kept my original 2-CD clamshell version of Original Musiquarium, Vol. 1 because I think it sounds better than the remaster (confirming Grant's assessment). To me, "Superstition" hasn't sounded better since, unfortunately.

[John B]

Originally posted by John Buchanan
For a comparison of Bluesbreakers versions, have a peek atBeano Remastered: 1994, 1998 & 2001 (http://twtd.bluemountains.net.au/cream/Fresh/beanoreleases.html)
It's a great site (and has only a very small amount of input from yours truly.) Blind Faith is to come, according to Graeme Pattingale who runs it.

Thanks - good site

[lukpac]

Originally posted by John Buchanan
For a comparison of Bluesbreakers versions, have a peek atBeano Remastered: 1994, 1998 & 2001 (http://twtd.bluemountains.net.au/cream/Fresh/beanoreleases.html)
It's a great site (and has only a very small amount of input from yours truly.) Blind Faith is to come, according to Graeme Pattingale who runs it.

Delta Nick and I have talked about this in the past...

I still say the sound quality sucks on the first 3 (stereo) tracks of the 1998 CD. For lack of a better term, they sound "midrangey".

Also, I'd say the jury is not in yet on the rest of the tracks. The 1998 CD does sound more open than the MoFi, but I think perhaps they might have added a bit too much top end on it.

I still haven't heard the 2001 remaster, and really have to question some of what Nick is saying about it. You can't simply "remove" a phantom guitar. Maybe sometime I'll actually pick it up to compare...

[Kevin Korom]

Avoid the remaster of Bob Seger's "Live Bullet" at all costs. Completely sucks the life out of one of the greatest live albums ever made...I have a copy for sale if anybody would like to find out for themselves:mad:

[Mike V]

Hey Kevin, let us know if you have any luck unloading the Seger disc after marketing it so well!

[Mike V]

As for my addition to this thread:

After hearing so many here and on the DCC board trumpet about the Steely Dan remasters 1998 and up, I decided to pick up "Countdown To Ecstasy". That puppy is earbleeder hell. It sounds like it was sourced from the original master to me, but I've never heard so much top-end boost in all my life. I can't believe these latest remasters got so much positive press on the boards.

I kept all my other Steely discs from maybe the 2nd remastering, and I think they sound pretty good. Still pretty bright, but not nearly as much.

I'd love to hear Steve's version of Aja. I imagine it's rare as hell. Anyone here care to share their experiences in procuring a copy?? How to ID the disc? Thanks!

[Grant]

Originally posted by John B


Grant,

I'm not trying to be funny but I thought you wouldn't want to see remixes of Motown stuff. Surely a bad second generation copy would be preferable?
I never said I wanted a remix. I was just stating what is.