Remix the Beatles - Gasp!

[John B]

I'm on slippery ground as a new member here. But the prospect of having the entire Beatles catalogue fully remixed makes me drool.

There is an excellent article about the Yellow Sub project, including a pretty detailed explanation of how the remixing was handled - with a lot of care and sensitivity. This might interest you Bob, Grant (YES WAY, JOSE), Scott, Ken, Arne, Pig and others who responded to my thread.

There are arguments against remixing but the benefits would be huge as the original multitracks (where they exist - late '63 on) sound fantastic.

Can we focus on how to remix the Beatles in such a way as to satisfy the naysayers?

And for those who insist on the original mixes, let's get them properly remastered and keep history intact. As many of you know the original mixes were the mono ones. The stereo mixes, which most people are more familiar with, were treated as an afterthought until '68 or '69. Please check the link - very interesting:

http://industryclick.com/magazinearticle.asp?releaseid=5827&magazinearticleid=72638&siteid=15&magazineid=141

[Matt]

I used to like the idea of remixing music, as long as it wasn't too complicated to piece together, but have since been turned off the idea because they're usually done with modern equipment/methods, which really changes the sound in an unfavorable way.

If I HAD to remix the Beatles, though, (and there are some things they recorded they could use a better stereo mix), I'd do it all in analogue, all-tube consoles (same vintage ones used for the original mixing and mastering of the album), no modern "tricks" or "gimmicks" (no denoising, etc.)...

I'd try to match the mono mixes in terms of instrument levels, etc., but without the same amount of compression (maybe the same compression as the stereo mixes, but I'd probably prefer a bit less).

I guess the most immediate changes I'd make would be mixing of the rhythm track on some tracks where it's too low, much lower than the mono mix (Steve mentioned "Can't Buy Me Love," "Rubber Soul" could use it, "Paperback Writer" among others). The stereo mix in general sucks on "Rubber Soul," which would justify the idea of remixing it for the original CD, except they botched that as well. So, I'd definitely reconstruct that mix, but be tasteful about it, nothing radical like ping-ponging.

Sgt. Pepper's is a tough call. The stereo mix is different in many ways, and in some ways, it's better, but I'd rather leave it alone.

I'd leave "Abbey Road" and the White Album era stuff alone. I just can't touch that stuff.

[John B]

Sounds good to me Matt. You will probably be interested in that link I posted as it deals with the issue of vintage equipment which they still have at Abbey Road studios.

John

[Gary]

Well I could handle a remix if the entire remixed album was included as "bonus" tracks after the original mix of the album!

[JonUrban]

That's a great idea, since these albums are so short, they would fit on a single CD in both versions!

:-jon

[BZync]

I loved the Songtrack and would like to see the entire catalog remixed in the same way. Not to replace, but to compliment.

[Bob Lovely]

All,

As I mentioned in the Remix thread, I am strongly in favor of remixing most of the Beatles catalog, primarily for sonic reasons (well documented here and other places)

The problem: EMI

They will insist that it be "done" at Abbey Road when it should be completed by a certain remastering talent based in So. California. My fear is that rather than use vintage equipment they will use modern electronics and add non-circa 1960's color to the new mixes. I also fear the use of No-Noise. If Beatles 1 is any indicator of Abbey Road's top shelf work on the Beatles catalog than I believe we would have a lot to fear if this project were to ever be initiated at Abbey Road. Beatles 1 sounds aniseptic (too squeeky clean), overprocessed and even further compressed to my ears (whether it is or not).

The Beatles master tapes should be lovingly remixed and remastered using the right master tapes (not EQ'ed working copies), played back and EQ'ed on exact vintage equipment and mastered using tube gear. In other words, I can really only trust one person to passionately "do it right":

Steve Hoffman

Bob

[Matt]

If they really want to do it themselves, they should at least license the material out to DCC or Steve at a reasonable price.

[John B]

Originally posted by Bob Lovely
All,

. My fear is that rather than use vintage equipment they will use modern electronics and add non-circa 1960's color to the new mixes. I also fear the use of No-Noise. If Beatles 1 is any indicator of Abbey Road's top shelf work on the Beatles catalog than I believe we would have a lot to fear if this project were to ever be initiated at Abbey Road.

The Beatles master tapes should be lovingly remixed and remastered using the right master tapes (not EQ'ed working copies), played back and EQ'ed on exact vintage equipment and mastered using tube gear. In other words, I can really only trust one person to passionately "do it right":

Steve Hoffman

Bob

Bob,

I agree. Not to sound like a broken poorly remixed record, please do check the link as it does address your fears (not all of them) but it does look like Peter Cobbin at Abbey Road studios deserves more credit than he gets. Steve Hoffman would be wonderful. I would be very happy to get rid of No Noise from the process. One of the nice things about Abbey Road is that they still have the vintage tube compressors, echo plates, microphones. Read away:

http://industryclick.com/magazinear...&magazineid=141

[Bob Lovely]

Originally posted by John B


Bob,

I agree. Not to sound like a broken poorly remixed record, please do check the link as it does address your fears (not all of them) but it does look like Peter Cobbin at Abbey Road studios deserves more credit than he gets. Steve Hoffman would be wonderful. I would be very happy to get rid of No Noise from the process. One of the nice things about Abbey Road is that they still have the vintage tube compressors, echo plates, microphones. Read away:

http://industryclick.com/magazinear...&magazineid=141

John,

I read away, earlier, and I, simply, do not trust them to complete such a project in the way it should be done. It is one thing to "talk the talk" and it is much harder to "walk the walk". All I have to do is listen to the Beatles 1 remaster and the Yellow Submarine remix and I can make this conclusion. Abbey Road may still have the vintage equipment but, will they use it and do they really know how to use it to bring true fidelity to either LP or CD releases?

Unless such a project is completed in the manner that I specified in my earlier post, and trust me on this, it will greatly disappoint true fans of outstanding sound and Beatles admirers world-wide who are yearning to hear the Beatles recordings in "true" audiophile quality.

Bob

[Beagle]

Now, with the blessing of the three remaining Beatles, moviegoers will have a chance to hear "When I'm Sixty-Four," "Sgt. Pepper," "Eleanor Rigby" and "Nowhere Man" in stunning wraparound sound Can't wait :rolleyes:

I'm reminded of a couple of quotations...

"Idle hands are the devils tool"

"If you have nothing to do, don't do it here"

Why don't they spend the time and money on research and trying to find people out there who can write and play half decent music instead of ruining existing classics? Why are so many people so wowed by special effects? What about substance and feeling?

Can't wait to hear "Have You Seen Your Mother Baby" in surround. I'm sure I'll wet myself :rolleyes:

[lukpac]

Originally posted by John B
There is an excellent article about the Yellow Sub project, including a pretty detailed explanation of how the remixing was handled - with a lot of care and sensitivity.

So does that mean those YS mixes suck that much more, since "care and sensitivity" were used?

I don't care what the articles say, the YS mixes just don't cut it for me. Too sterile, not musical enough. Sure, they're clean as can be, but the warmth of the originals just isn't there.

[PsychFan]

Originally posted by lukpac
I don't care what the articles say, the YS mixes just don't cut it for me. Too sterile, not musical enough. Sure, they're clean as can be, but the warmth of the originals just isn't there.

I agree. When I bought the YS "Songtrack," I was quite impressed with the clarity, but it became clear that's all they had to offer. But I've almost never listened to it since ... I always go straight to the originals. Clarity ain't everything ...

[Sam]

The Sgt. Pepper tracks on YS can't touch my UHQR version. No contest!

[Gary]

For Beagle:

It's Entertainment, Baby, Entertainment!

Who wants to stare at the blank space between the speakers? Give me DVD-V and 54 glorious inches of colour - or even color! ;) That's Entertainment! Clean, glorious, no noised surround sound - brighter brights, cleaner cleans, lower lows, lots of flash! That's Entertainment! Cut the dull spots from the old movies, speed them up, colourize them - Entertain us!

Come on, Beagle, whats the matter for you, huh? You an audiophile or something? Substance and feeling indeed. Get shallow, man!

:rolleyes:

Please don't take any of the above the wrong way - I was trying to be sarcastic and funny at the same time which usually does not work in print. Sorry if I offended you.

Seriously, it's all just Entertainment these days....... IMO of course. :(

[Grant]

Originally posted by Jeff Partyka


I agree. When I bought the YS "Songtrack," I was quite impressed with the clarity, but it became clear that's all they had to offer. But I've almost never listened to it since ... I always go straight to the originals. Clarity ain't everything ...
I agree with both Luke and Jeff here. Besides, how are you going to reproduce the effects for songs like "Baby You're A Rich Man"? And, is STEREO so important to you that the sound and feel of the mono mixes should be ignored?

[John B]

Originally posted by Bob Lovely


John,


Unless such a project is completed in the manner that I specified in my earlier post, and trust me on this, it will greatly disappoint true fans of outstanding sound and Beatles admirers world-wide who are yearning to hear the Beatles recordings in "true" audiophile quality.

Bob


Hi Bob,

I do hear you and thanks for your persistence.

I am reminded how much better the Hoffman McCartney remasters sound than "Wingspan".

I modify my initial premise accordingly: Remix the Beatles with Steve Hoffman or his twin brother at the helm.

The White Album for one (with up to five generations of sound loss on the existing stereo master) would benefit a great deal from the remix but we wouldn't want it at the expense of the original warmth, (thanks lukpac!). Hoffman it is.

Now, how can we make it happen?

[PsychFan]

Originally posted by John B
Now, how can we make it happen?

That's easy: We can't. Unless any of us here happens to be Paul or Ringo or Yoko or Olivia or Neil Aspinall in disguise ...

The Beatles and their organization(s) will do whatever they want with the band's recorded legacy, but obviously these decisions are/will be made by committee, and consensus is probably very difficult to come by. They are unlikely to take the demands, dreams, hopes and desires of audiophiles very seriously in their decision-making, even assuming McCartney and Starr (both of whom should know) happen to like Steve's work ...

The Beatles/Apple also have to work through EMI on this, and that puts another cat out there amongst the pigeons ...

[Bob Lovely]

Originally posted by John B



Hi Bob,

I do hear you and thanks for your persistence.

I am reminded how much better the Hoffman McCartney remasters sound than "Wingspan".

I modify my initial premise accordingly: Remix the Beatles with Steve Hoffman or his twin brother at the helm.

The White Album for one (with up to five generations of sound loss on the existing stereo master) would benefit a great deal from the remix but we wouldn't want it at the expense of the original warmth, (thanks lukpac!). Hoffman it is.

Now, how can we make it happen?

John,

That is the real "sticky wicket" isn't it? I believe it would take someone, like Paul McCartney, to insist that Steve Hoffman remix/remaster the Beatles catalog. Or, perhaps the real party that has to be convinced is EMI. Regardless, I see it as a highly desirable but, daunting undertaking.

Bob :)

[PsychFan]

Originally posted by Bob Lovely
I believe it would take someone, like Paul McCartney, to insist that Steve Hoffman remix/remaster the Beatles catalog.

McCartney is just one vote. Does anyone even know what Yoko Ono's or Olivia Harrison's thoughts are on this?

[Beagle]

Originally posted by Gary
For Beagle:

It's Entertainment, Baby, Entertainment!

Who wants to stare at the blank space between the speakers? Give me DVD-V and 54 glorious inches of colour - or even color! ;) That's Entertainment! Clean, glorious, no noised surround sound - brighter brights, cleaner cleans, lower lows, lots of flash! That's Entertainment! Cut the dull spots from the old movies, speed them up, colourize them - Entertain us!

Come on, Beagle, whats the matter for you, huh? You an audiophile or something? Substance and feeling indeed. Get shallow, man!

:rolleyes:

Please don't take any of the above the wrong way - I was trying to be sarcastic and funny at the same time which usually does not work in print. Sorry if I offended you.

Seriously, it's all just Entertainment these days....... IMO of course. :( Oh have no fear, I was LMAO! Music is becoming like food, all preservatives and sugar, no nourishment.

[Beagle]

Originally posted by Jeff Partyka


McCartney is just one vote. Does anyone even know what Yoko Ono's or Olivia Harrison's thoughts are on this? Speaking of which, I also can't wait to hear the Yoko Ono double Apple album remixed for surround. That toilet flushing and cackling will send shivers down my spine, coming form the rear speakers.

I'm sorry, don't mean to annoy people, but I find this whole Beatles remix/surround thing very depressing, like it's motivated by money not taste. But that's nothing new now is it?

[Bob Lovely]

Originally posted by Jeff Partyka


McCartney is just one vote. Does anyone even know what Yoko Ono's or Olivia Harrison's thoughts are on this?

Jeff,

I was kind of thinkin' that Paul might be the Alpha male on "the committee" along with Ringo and convince the others...seriously, I would have to think that Paul and Ringo's desires would weigh heavily since they are the surviving members of the band. I would hate to think that the future of how we hear and listen to the Beatles would be heavily influenced by Yoko Ono. :eek:

Bob :)

[Grant]

Originally posted by Beagle
Speaking of which, I also can't wait to hear the Yoko Ono double Apple album remixed for surround. That toilet flushing and cackling will send shivers down my spine, coming form the rear speakers.

I'm sorry, don't mean to annoy people, but I find this whole Beatles remix/surround thing very depressing, like it's motivated by money not taste. But that's nothing new now is it?

I AGREE!

Bob, Yoko has an equal a vote as John would. I'll wager that if anyone holds up having the mixes preserved it would probably be Yoko. It's no secret that she is Paul's yang to his ying.

[John B]

Originally posted by Grant

I agree with both Luke and Jeff here. Besides, how are you going to reproduce the effects for songs like "Baby You're A Rich Man"? And, is STEREO so important to you that the sound and feel of the mono mixes should be ignored?

Hi Grant,

Again, thanks for your input. Let's keep the feel of the mono and I don't know how to reproduce the effects on "Baby You're A Rich Man" yet.

The least controversial remixes would be from the four track multis to Beatles For Sale, A Hard Day's Night, Help and Rubber Soul - not a lot of challenging sound effects. Good to get rid of that awful splatter on AHDN and BFS.

The later stuff gets trickier and I can think of two songs where (if memory serves) the original mix can not be duplicated: "Revolution 9" with tape loops direct to the stereo master and I Am The Walrus with live radio direct to the mono master. Apart from them I'd still love to see it all remixed with a Hoffmanesque musicality (is that a recognized adjective?).