Everly Bros. DCC Gold CD / RCA Nashville Studio info/ What's Compression?/Buddy Holly

[syogusr]

Forgive me, but I know this is a really dumb question, if I can get this CD at a local Border's; should I spring for it?

I am from the era of this duo, but I was never a huge fan of them. But I do know this is about as classic as it gets. Again, I am well aware of DCC and Steve's brilliance, but will I be happy with this, at $25.99?

[Bob Lovely]

Originally posted by syogusr
Forgive me, but I know this is a really dumb question, if I can get this CD at a local Border's; should I spring for it?

I am from the era of this duo, but I was never a huge fan of them. But I do know this is about as classic as it gets. Again, I am well aware of DCC and Steve's brilliance, but will I be happy with this, at $25.99?

It is outstanding and worth the cost if you really enjoy the Everlys. It is very well mastered, as you would expect. When Will I Be Loved and Cathy's Clown are, in particular, outstanding!

Bob :)

[Sckott]

F***ing a! Hey, grab it now. I bought mine for about $40 and it was worth every penny! Possibly one of the better discs Steve's done for many reasons. You'll have to notice the technical things that are interesting for yourself.

The disc isn't rare. Lots are out there. If you like the Everly's a little the disc and the price won't dissapoint.

You'll become more of a fan in 20 seconds.

[Todd Fredericks]

I agree with the others, you should get it. The music is fabulous...

Todd

[Bob Lovely]

Originally posted by Sckott
F***ing a! Hey, grab it now. I bought mine for about $40 and it was worth every penny! Possibly one of the better discs Steve's done for many reasons. You'll have to notice the technical things that are interesting for yourself.

The disc isn't rare. Lots are out there. If you like the Everly's a little the disc and the price won't dissapoint.

You'll become more of a fan in 20 seconds.

Sckott,

Are those "technical things" a big secret? ;)

What do you hear? I hear a CD that sounds very, very analog--like an LP.

Your thoughts?

Bob :)

[Sckott]

Once I got this CD I told Steve, "Sheesh, the master tape didn't fade to dead 0, did it? Seems the board had some talkthrough when they faded it down to nothing". He explained the board they used didn't have an absolute 0.

So, when you listen to "Wake Up Little Suzie" and "Bye Bye Love", the engineer is supposed to fade the track out themselves to avoid the haphazard fadeout on the master. Steve left it in, every drop. It will sound weird, because the dynamics thin out after they turn the fade down to nothin.

Steve said something to the effect, as you'd expect; "The engineer's job was to fade it out on their end before it hit below that point. It's like the engineers had better things to do, so they rush the fade out, and I HATE that."

It only happens on a few songs on the CD. Just wait for the end of the song to fade out, dry out, then cut cold. See, a few extra seconds don't hurt, and it keeps true to the master tape, TRUELY!

I love that stuff. ;)

If Steve has more to say techinically about the board they used, I invite him to. I forgot the complete details and I'm not @ home....

[Dave]

syogusr,

Definately not! I don't agree with the others at all!

I think that you should buy it , just to help the poor slob who owns it now, out. Then you should, just as quickly as you bought it, put it in a bubble pack envelope and send it to me at 1234.....:D

Enjoy it man, it truely is awesome compared to any other cd version of the Everly's.;)

[Bob Lovely]

Originally posted by Sckott
Once I got this CD I told Steve, "Sheesh, the master tape didn't fade to dead 0, did it? Seems the board had some talkthrough when they faded it down to nothing". He explained the board they used didn't have an absolute 0.

So, when you listen to "Wake Up Little Suzie" and "Bye Bye Love", the engineer is supposed to fade the track out themselves to avoid the haphazard fadeout on the master. Steve left it in, every drop. It will sound weird, because the dynamics thin out after they turn the fade down to nothin.

Steve said something to the effect, as you'd expect; "The engineer's job was to fade it out on their end before it hit below that point. It's like the engineers had better things to do, so they rush the fade out, and I HATE that."

It only happens on a few songs on the CD. Just wait for the end of the song to fade out, dry out, then cut cold. See, a few extra seconds don't hurt, and it keeps true to the master tape, TRUELY!

I love that stuff. ;)

If Steve has more to say techinically about the board they used, I invite him to. I forgot the complete details and I'm not @ home....

Sckott,

I noticed near the end of the fade out on When Will I Be Loved I hear a last refrain a capella just before the total fade out. Is this an example of what you are mentioning here?

Thanks for sharing more details from the mastering sessions!

Bob

[Jeff H.]

I wouldn't hesitate to pick this one up since the Everly's disc is one of the few Rock and Pop DCC titles that you can still find in stores. Definitely one of the best sounding DCC releases ever!!!

[Steve Hoffman]

I'm still quite fond of this Everly Bros. CD.

For two reasons:

One, it was the last Gold CD I did for the "old" DCC.

Second, it was an honor working with Andy Williams and his group (even if it took two years to actually get the tapes).

I didn't put any studio chatter on the CD, although there is a bunch from the original sessions. Some folks can't stand that stuff, and at the time, I was planning to do a DCC Everly Bros. LP with some chatter and a few alternate takes on it. (Still might happen).

The reason that "Bye Bye Love" and "Wake Up Little Susie" don't fade out all the way at the end has been nicely explained by Sckott. But, WHY (you ask) do the rest of the early tracks fade out smoothly? Were not THEY original master tapes as well?

I'm glad you asked that question!

;)

The first two songs were recorded at the OLD RCA-Victor studio which was located at 1525 McGavock Street, Nashville, TN.

Later (1958) songs like "All I Have To Do Is Dream" were recorded at the NEW (at the time) RCA-Victor Studio (studio B), located at 1610 Hawkins Street, Nashville. This is the famous "RCA-Victor "Nashville Sound" studio that all of our favorite RCA country hits were recorded at, also the best Orbison and Elvis, etc. This studio had a smooth fading board, so these post 1957 tracks faded out nicely.

The recording engineer was Shelby Coffin for most of the Everly tracks, but Bill Porter took over for "('Til) I Kissed You" "When Will I Be Loved" and "Cathy's Clown".

[Bob Lovely]

Steve,

Thanks for sharing your "mastering experiences" and insights on this great CD. Now I know why Till I Kissed You, When Will I Be Loved and Cathy's Clown sound so good--Bill Porter. I should have realized. The sound is amazing on those tracks.

I know have more knowledge on my last DCC purchase. Thanks!

Bob :)

[Steve Hoffman]

Yes, when Bill Porter came aboard the RCA "sound" was created.

The old RCA sound was clean and a bit strident. Perfect for playback on an RCA 15" studio monitor without a tweeter!

The new Bill Porter sound was smooth, but with great tonality ("from DC to Light"), combined with tons of echo, and heavy tube compression from two old RCA 1940's optical limiters. This is the sound that we hear on "Only The Lonely", "It's Now Or Never", "The End Of The World", "Detroit City", and the zillions of other hits that were recorded at RCA-Victor's "Nashville Sound" Studio B.

You can tell when something was recorded at RCA from 1959-66. It has that "sound".

Neat!

[Bob Lovely]

Originally posted by Steve Hoffman
Yes, when Bill Porter came aboard the RCA "sound" was created.

The old RCA sound was clean and a bit strident. Perfect for playback on an RCA 15" studio monitor without a tweeter!

The new Bill Porter sound was smooth, but with great tonality ("from DC to Light"), combined with tons of echo, and heavy tube compression from two old RCA 1940's optical limiters. This is the sound that we hear on "Only The Lonely", "It's Now Or Never", "The End Of The World", "Detroit City", and the zillions of other hits that were recorded at RCA-Victor's "Nashville Sound" Studio B.

You can tell when something was recorded at RCA from 1959-66. It has that "sound".

Neat!

Steve,

A strong "second" to that from this collector!

Thanks for the more in-depth history lesson. Your vintage equipment knowledge is truly amazing to hear about.

What is an "Optical Limiter"?

Bob :D

[Steve Hoffman]

Originally posted by Bob Lovely


Steve,

Thanks for the more in-depth history lesson. Your vintage equipment knowledge is truly amazing to hear about.

What is an "Optical Limiter"?

Bob :D

Well, an optical limiter uses a photo light cell (like for recording optical sound on film) for gain reduction.

You are hearing an optical limiter in action on every mono recording from around 1925 to, well, now, 'cause some folks are still using them.

The RCA developed Opto-limiter has an extra warm tubey sound, so it's not going to give you any "MONO BEATLES' LIMITER SPLATTER" no matter how hard it is overdriven. One of the reasons that the Bill Porter RCA Nashville stuff always sounds so smooth.

The NON-Optical limiter is a variable mu tube type of limiter. This type is much more subtle in its gain reduction. The most famous of this type is the Fairchild Stereo Limiter/Compressor. This was in use (some say overuse) on every Beatles' stereo mix. :)

Try these:

Variable mu type limiter:
http://www.pendulumaudio.com/ES8RcdgReview.html

Optical type limiter:
http://www.mercenary.com/landualchane.html

"What is compression?" (from MIX magazine):
http://industryclick.com/magazinearticle.asp?releaseid=5811&magazinearticleid=72020&siteid=15&magazineid=141

[Bob Lovely]

Steve,

Thanks for the continuing education credits!

I am learning a lot from this forum about the technology of recording, past and present.

Bob :D

[David R. Modny]

I'm not a "religious" person...but I'd like to put my opinion on record as:

BILL PORTER = GOD

"Little Sister"
"Good Luck Charm"
"Muskrat"


Does sound get any better than this???

[Bob Lovely]

Steve,

Thanks for the links! The "paper" on compressors/limiters should be required reading for ALL SH Forum members as a primer. While I am not quite ready for the written test yet, I plan to spend more time studying the information in the primer....lest I mistake my soft knee for a hard knee!

Bob :)

[lukpac]

Originally posted by David R. Modny
I'm not a "religious" person...

What?! What of the David R. Modny I've come to know and love?!

;)

[Dave]

Wow Steve,

Holy educational post. So I gather that most recording studios are just using their compressors with too fast of an attack time and that's why we get that annoying treble ear pain syndrome? Or is it alot more factors than that? Or is it more of a case of just using an intermediate setting for everything?

Thanks Steve.

[David R. Modny]

Originally posted by lukpac


What?! What of the David R. Modny I've come to know and love?!

;)


...you can pull that tongue out of your cheek now, young one.

[stereo71]

Thanks for the links!!

On the Mix page, check out the article about
Hollywood Vaults (under the General heading).

[Steve Hoffman]

Originally posted by Dave
Wow Steve,

Holy educational post. So I gather that most recording studios are just using their compressors with too fast of an attack time and that's why we get that annoying treble ear pain syndrome? Or is it alot more factors than that? Or is it more of a case of just using an intermediate setting for everything?

Thanks Steve.

Dave,

These are groovy ANALOG compressors you have been reading about. The studios are using the evil DIGITAL beasts now. No sonic character of their own, just ruthless squeezing of all dynamics out of the music.

[John Oteri]

That's for sure!

Some studios still use analog compression I guess. At least Mix Magazine says so. :)

[JohnnyK]

The DCC Everly Bros. CD is very good and it is worth the price. But, IMHO, it is not as good as Steve's Buddy Holly CD. The Buddy Holly CD is FANTASTIC! When I turn down the lights and play the Buddy Holly CD I swear the he is standing in front of me. The sound is just sooooooooo real!

[John Oteri]

That's because the engineering is different. Same type of equipment, but Norman Petty (Buddy Holly's engineer and producer) used a minimum amount of processing when he recorded Buddy Holly.

Interesting that two artists' who recorded at the exact same time should have totally different recording qualities.