The Coen Brothers: Wha Happened??

[Phenomenal Cat]

One only need say "Coen Brothers", and I'm shelling out my 8 bucks. I love their movies; they're imaginative, original, full of twists and surprises, with great actors, great characters, and they're funny as hell.

So why did I sit mute through the last 2 films, "Intolerable Cruelty" and "Ladykillers"? I figured "I.C." was more "mainstream" for a reason. Maybe it was partly parody. It seemed to revel in cliches. It even had a spit take!

Now I have seen "Ladykillers", for which I read good reviews. Again, I watched it like I watch a car wreck. Besides Tom Hanks, I found the characters shallow, shrill, unappealing, and one-dimensional. A guy with irritable bowel syndrome? Was that funnier with repetition? It almost seemed to be a Coen knock-off, like all the Tarantino-esque pictures that have come out since "Pulp Fiction". I predicted the ending to "Ladykillers" within the first 30 minutes. Same with "Intolerable Cruelty".

I know there's people who enjoyed both films, but from what I have come to expect from the Coen Brothers ("Big Lebowski", "Fargo", "O Brother","Raising Arizona"), I'm wondering just what's going on. Are these guys slipping, or what?

[Michael]

...branching out and joining the "in" crowd of junk? I hope they get back on track too!

[davenav]

Junk? I don't think so.

The Coens want to be proficient in all kinds of movies, and, like Howard Hawks, they seem capable of pulling off just about any style. Naturally, they still add their personal touch to all their films.

Intolerable Cruelty was written as a commercial film for another director. It eventually landed back in their laps after being rewritten by other writers. Despite that, I find it to be the closest they have come to Raising Arizona in the comedy dept. Repeated viewings only reinforce the underlying mountain of cynicism wrapped in the guise of a romantic comedy.

The Ladykillers is, of course, a remake. You can't blame them for the ending. It's irrelevent to me though because it is so expertly done. It does help to have seen the original beforehand, so you can appreciate the Coen's devious additions and twists.

But even if you never come around to these two pictures, I would not write them off. Remember, their follow-up to O Brother was The Man Who Wasn't There--as uncommercial a movie as anything ever made!!

[Ed Bishop]

Like Tarantino, The Coens have a mystique about them, and they'll always find someone to bankroll their movies and let them do what they want...which, of course, is the only way they'll work. That means an ouvre that will tend to be a little erratic in quality, but always entertaining, and quirky, even when they don't measure up to past achievements.

Nothing cookie-cutter about men like this; they're one of the very few I'll pay to watch in a theater these days....


:ed:

[vinyl anachronist]

"The Ladykillers" didn't really receive good reviews. In fact, I saw it trashed by critics more often than not for being rather mediocre and un-Coen-like. "Intolerable Cruelty" fared better, but I didn't really like it that much, either, although it had its moments.

Then again, the one before THAT was "The Man Who Wasn't There," which I thought was excellent. That was only three years ago, so I don't think it's time to write Joel and Ethan off yet.

The one thing I've been noticing about their body of work is that their hardcore fans are very divided about each separate film. For instance, while I consider myself a fan, I still scratch my head over the cult that has developed with "The Big Lebowski." I've even seen it three times, hoping it would sink in. It hasn't. On the other hand, I really enjoy "The Hudsucker Proxy," and many others consider it to be their worst film (at least until "The Ladykillers" came out). I've met Coen fans who don't like "Fargo" (blasphemy!) or "Barton Fink" (the hell you say!) or even "Raising Arizona" (which is just plain nuts). I also know Coen fans who think the last two were just fine. I think when it comes to their films, subjectivity is everything.

[GregM]

I'm the Coen bros biggest fan and I've refused to see IC or LadyKillers. I saw Man Who Wasn't There and didn't care for it, but when they're on, no one is better than Joel and Ethan.

Most of their movies have a theme about selling out...they probably think they have sold out. It probably happened when they agreed to work with the likes of Tom Hanks, Zetta Jones and Clooney.

[Michael]

I'm the Coen bros biggest fan and I've refused to see IC or LadyKillers. I saw Man Who Wasn't There and didn't care for it, but when they're on, no one is better than Joel and Ethan.


Oh Yea, The Big Lebowski is on my regular playlist, as is on my Son's!...just laugh thinking about it.:laugh:

[davenav]

I'm the Coen bros biggest fan and I've refused to see IC or LadyKillers.

Why? You don't think they should work with big stars? Clooney certainly has benefitted from the association, by doing some of his best work.

[Ron Stone]

I think they may have written themselves out. Their first three films remain the best, with FARGO and O BROTHER WHERE ART THOU worthy additions. The rest were not essential viewing.

I think sometimes they descend into mere cleverness, and their movies become an empty genre exercise for themselves and film buffs: I'm thinking of THE MAN WHO WASN'T THERE, INTOLERABLE CRUELTY, etc.

[Phenomenal Cat]

I think they may have written themselves out. Their first three films remain the best, with FARGO and O BROTHER WHERE ART THOU worthy additions. The rest were not essential viewing.

I think sometimes they descend into mere cleverness, and their movies become an empty genre exercise for themselves and film buffs: I'm thinking of THE MAN WHO WASN'T THERE, INTOLERABLE CRUELTY, etc.

I think this is what I've been reacting to when watching the last two movies. I have not seen the movie that "Ladykillers" is based on, so I'm not sure what was changed or cleverly twisted. What I did notice was how each character had their own extreme trait (i.e. The slick talking swindler, the "streetwise" black guy, the Korean (?) guy who says little and smokes, the really dumb guy), but there was no payoff for any of their quirks. They were just "quirky", that's all. When John Turturro played "The Jesus" in "Lebowski", he was chewing up scenery! I'm usually rolling on the floor laughing at the sheer audacity of some of the characters the Coens create (Go Bears). In "Ladykillers", I feel as if there is another movie out there I should be familiar with to understand it, because I thought I was watching one of Woody Allen's latest films. Maybe their new films are a little too "knowing", wink wink, nudge, nudge. I wonder how people felt when Neil Young put out "Trans".

[GregM]

Why? You don't think they should work with big stars? Clooney certainly has benefitted from the association, by doing some of his best work.

The Coen bros write for specific actors they have in mind for any given role.

Part of the mythology the Coen bros created for themselves, particularly with Barton Fink, is the artist speaking for the "common man". The artist sets out to revolutionize his genre by avoiding elitist conventions and styles. In the process of realizing he is not speaking the language of the common man after all, the artist loses everything, including acclaim.

The other common thread is that of redemption--coming out clean and new.

I think what we are seeing is a self-fulfilling prophecy where the Coens lose touch by letting success compromise their art. One can only hope we see them redeem themselves....and soon.

[PaulB]

I saw IC and thought it had some pretty funny parts. Not the greatest movie ever, but thinking back I still get a chuckle.

[Captain Groovy]

The last act of "Ladykillers" was vintage Coen.

But I agree that their last two films were not classic Coen Brothers... if only "Ladykillers" moved the entire time like the third act.

JEFF!

[Ken_McAlinden]

I missed the remake of The Ladykillers in theaters, and haven't seen it on video, but I thought "Intolerable Cruelty" was very underrated. The Coens were brought in late on that project, but they made it into a very enjoyable confection. I'm sure they relished the spit take as much as the inhaler gag. They get what was great about the screwball romantic comedies of the 40s and relish in their conventions. The fact that they bring this 40s sensibility into a film about the current age of divorce certainly makes it more interesting for me to watch then if their only point of reference was "When Harry Met Sally" and "Pretty Woman", of which 99% of American romantic comedies released in their wake have been pale reflections.

Regards,

[Mike B]

found the characters shallow, shrill, unappealing, and one-dimensional

I find most Coen characters that way, and part of the odd appeal of their films.

Intolerable Cruelty is underrated, IMO. Clooney does a great job of adding 90s cynicism to the suave cool of the Cary Grant-style "golden age" leading men. With his charm and exuberance in the Coen's flicks and his turn in Solaris, Clooney proves to me that he's the real deal, not just another Hollywood pretty boy.

Ladykillers was amusing. Not every film has to be a masterpiece.

[poweragemk]

They could make Jaws sequels for the rest of their careers and, as far as I'm concerned, that's fine with me. They've given us so many good things that they've earned the privilege...
I don't understand why fans would jump ship after two films that they didn't 'get' or that weren't 'typical.' Fickle, I guess.

[BradOlson]

After all, no director(s) can make masterpieces all the time. It's all about the money.

[Phenomenal Cat]

They could make Jaws sequels for the rest of their careers and, as far as I'm concerned, that's fine with me. They've given us so many good things that they've earned the privilege...
I don't understand why fans would jump ship after two films that they didn't 'get' or that weren't 'typical.' Fickle, I guess.

Jump ship? Hardly! When one looks at how prolific the Coens have been, and how the standard of quality has always been high, I think my fear was that they were adopting a bit too much of a "populist" approach. I'm splashing a little here, but I'll keep the baby.

Look at what Christopher Guest has done: "Waiting for Guffman" was terrific, and it a took a while for most people to finally find it. "Best in Show" was clearly more mainstream and accessible: it was hilarious as well, but went to further lengths to explain the jokes and create broader stereotypes that people would recognize. As a fan, my forehead wrinkled in worry. Thankfully, "A Mighty Wind" was very good; almost a compromise between "Guffman" and "Show".

The Coens have made some successful films, so I'm keeping an eye on them, so to speak. Two films in a row that didn't grab me by the boo boo doesn't mean I'll abandon them (I still buy David Bowie records), but I feel justified in being a bit more critical of what they do. I just don't want to lose them to the mainstream. Woody Allen used to make great films....

[poweragemk]

Andy, I wasn't talking about you specifically. I just don't understand bandwagons in the context of art, that's all. It's like waiting for Sleeper II to come out from Woody Allen, ya know? ;)

Now, if it were sports, I loves me a bandwagon. :laugh:

[Phenomenal Cat]

And in NY, you've got a LOT of teams to choose from!

[davenav]

Yeah, go Giants!! Uh, wait a minute...boy they were awful yesterday.

Anywho, let's not forget that Miller's Crossing had folks scratching their heads wondering if the Coens had lost it. Then, Bammo, Barton Fink, a film that turned everyone back around and which I still don't 'get.' I mean, did Judy Davis really die or was the whole second-half a dream sequence? Please someone explain it to me!

Hudsucker Proxy is one that leaves many viewers cold, but I love that movie to death!

[GregM]

Yes, Judy Davis really died, but I see the entire movie, set, and cast of characters as a series of symbols.

[Jimbo]

I found IC to be a pleasant surprise, quite funny and well done. On the other hand, I thought "Ladykillers" was terrible, except for the music.

[Paul C.]

Haven't seen The Ladykillers yet... but the other night saw Intolerable Cruelty. I thought it was great, and George Clooney was terrific. A different kettle of fish from previous works, but a worthy addition.

[Ken_McAlinden]

...Anywho, let's not forget that Miller's Crossing had folks scratching their heads wondering if the Coens had lost it. Then, Bammo, Barton Fink, a film that turned everyone back around and which I still don't 'get.' ...
Miller's Crossing is my favorite film of the 90s.