Steve, would you ever master Pet Sounds on SACD?

[Steve w]

It looks like Capital chose DVD-A over SACD so you would be our only hope.

[Steve Hoffman]

I'd love to. Which versions should go on? The original mono mix, the stereo remix or a new surround remix?

[Holy Zoo]

Yes, help us Hoffman-kenobi, you're our only....


;)

[Steve Hoffman]

Cute Zoo!

You know, I really would like to just do a dual layer MONO SACD of this title, but can you imagine the consumer complaints? :(

[Paul L.]

Steve,
You're just testing us, right?

With SACD you can have multi-channel PLUS a stereo or mono mix. My vote would be the mono mix and a new surround mix, not that I plan on listening to surround until some years into the future.

[Dave]

Steve,

If there is anyway to, and I don't know if it's possible, put all three mixes on SACD that way no unhappy customers at all guaranteed. (shrug)

[Steve Hoffman]

Well Dave,

If the "per song" royalty rate didn't increase by three times...:eek:

[Steve w]

I don't know how much it would affect the lisencing fee, but you could fit one layer with both the mono and stereo and the other layer could have multi-channel (If it was SACD only). If you were going to do a hybrid disc, I'd vote for the mono/stereo combo or the mono if only one was used.

[indy mike]

Steve - surround on Pet Sounds??? Had to check my calendar to see if it was April 1! :D Maybe mono and stereo with you at the controls for the stereo (I can sense eyeballs rolling out in old El Lay - tamper with Mr. Wilson's baby???). Perhaps Endless Summer first to get the cash flow rolling, then Pet Sounds....

[GregM]

Yep I would buy Pet Sounds in an INSTANT if ever Steve worked up an SACD.

Who said Capitol (that's EMI ya know) "sided with DVD-A"? Did I blink and miss something?

[Steve w]

Ice Magazine has 2 Capital titles on DVD-A listed.

[Claus]

That's one of my all-time favorites, and I'm sure Steve can improve the J. Gastwirt remaster. I'd like to see the original mono mix and the new stereo mix...

[Rspaight]

EMI are bringing out a few DVD-As next month, as noted in ICE, but they've also announced impending releases on SACD. I think they're keeping their options open at the moment.

As far as the Big Five go:

- Sony and Warner are obvious
- Universal has announced SACD titles (Allman Bros, Steely Dan, Coltrane, etc.) for spring and a vague DVD-A "commitment"
- EMI has imminent DVD-A releases (Al Green, Eric Johnson, and another I forget), existing classical on both DVD-A and SACD, and a press release promising big-name SACD but no specific titles(McCartney, Bowie, Pet Shop Boys, etc.)
- I have no idea what BMG is doing

So for the moment it's a toss-up, with maybe an edge for SACD if EMI comes through with big-name titles.

Ryan

[GuyDon]

I don't know if this has been discussed yet, but Mark Linnett stated on the Brian Wilson message board that he is working on a surround sound Pet Sounds disc for release later this year. However, knowing Beach Boys releases, 2003 is a safer bet.

[Mal]

Pet Sounds in Multichannel - :confused:

I can't think of a better way to kill the magic of the original :D.

Ok, so if people want it let Mark Linett mix it and put bit out on Capitol (on DVD-A no doubt :p) and let Steve get on with more important things, like making the greatest possible DSD master of the mono tapes.

[Grant]

Originally posted by Steve Hoffman
I'd love to. Which versions should go on? The original mono mix, the stereo remix or a new surround remix?
MONO! As Brian Wilson mixed it! Please!

[RetroSmith]

Guys, whats the problem with a Multichannel Pet Sounds?

Great sounding MONO CDs of this title are available.

Great sounding STEREO Versions are available.

No need to re-invent the wheel.


I think a multichannel version of Pet Sounds would be a Mind Blowing Expereince. You would really be able to hear what was going on in the studio. Isnt THAT the purpose of the whole listening experience...to hear EVERYTHING, not what was hidden by the limitations of the technology of the time?

I think alot of people on this board have to face the fact that the future of reissues is Multichannel.

[Grant]

Originally posted by mikey5967
Guys, whats the problem with a Multichannel Pet Sounds?

Great sounding MONO CDs of this title are available.

Great sounding STEREO Versions are available.

No need to re-invent the wheel.


I think a multichannel version of Pet Sounds would be a Mind Blowing Expereince. You would really be able to hear what was going on in the studio. Isnt THAT the purpose of the whole listening experience...to hear EVERYTHING, not what was hidden by the limitations of the technology of the time?

I think alot of people on this board have to face the fact that the future of reissues is Multichannel.

OK, OK, as long as it's on SACD. But I disagree with your last sentence. It's so expensive and time consuming to do multichannel that a lot of things won't ever get there. Besides, remixing to multichannel may destroy the original integrity of the stereo (or mono) recording.

Besides, you can put both multichannel AND stereo/mono on the same SACD, the best of both worlds! And, mere CD player owners can play the SACD multi-layer disc. With SACD, EVERYBODY gets some!

[RetroSmith]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Grant
[B]

But I disagree with your last sentence. It's so expensive and time consuming to do multichannel that a lot of things won't ever get there. Besides, remixing to multichannel may destroy the original integrity of the stereo (or mono) recording.



>>>Grant, my friend, I understand your theory. But I have to disagree, because the Record Companies are pushing Multichannel HARD...they want to sell us our Cd collections ALL OVER AGAIN. The "expense" to encode a title in Multichannel is NOTHING compared to the profit potential. Think of it this way.....they only have to sell a few hundred DVD-As or SACDs to pay for the mastering!! after that its all prift, baby.

And if you think they CARE about "The integrity of the original mix"..........they dont. They want to make money, pure and simple.
That being said, theres room on either format to include the original mix. I see them doing that so that the consumer has a standard of comparison to the surround mix.

[GregM]

First of all, I will take a gorgeously detailed, ultrarealistic mono version of ANY recording over a similarly detailed multichannel production simply because mono more closely approximates what I hear when I see a live acoustic band at a jazz club.

>> Grant, my friend, I understand your theory. But I have to disagree, because the Record Companies are pushing Multichannel HARD... <<

Really? Where are all the multichannel releases? I see *maybe* one a week. I still see 99.9999% of music being produced for traditional stereo.

>> they want to sell us our Cd collections ALL OVER AGAIN. The "expense" to encode a title in Multichannel is NOTHING compared to the profit potential. <<

But multichannel is not a guarantee of selling anything, and traditional stereo is selling. First you say the record industry essentially wants to maximize its profit. Then you say the industry would be willing to put down a huge initial investment in time and money to produce multichannel content when they know full well they can sell traditional stereo productions that are far cheaper and faster to release. I just don't see those ideas as compatible.

>> Think of it this way.....they only have to sell a few hundred DVD-As or SACDs to pay for the mastering!! after that its all prift, baby. <<

Maybe so, but the profit is greater without having to develop multichannel content.

>> And if you think they CARE about "The integrity of the original mix"..........they dont. They want to make money, pure and simple. <<

That's an argument for multichannel going the way of the dinosaur within a couple years here. The way I see it, multichannel just makes it 5.1 times as likely the producer and engineer will screw up any given title. It was hit and miss with two-channel. It will be mostly "miss" with multichannel.

[vinylrec]

http://home.columbus.rr.com/garthur/petsounds.jpg
Someone was bound to do this sooner or later.....

[Paul L.]

Greg M,

Record companies want to make money. They got hooked on people buying CDs of titles they already had purchased before on LP. Those gravy days are long gone, and the outlook is even worse. Yes, the record companies can sell a limited amount of remasters, but it isn't as much as the initial rush on CDs made to replace LPs.

The record companies, by and large, are not getting the sales they want out of their previous stars (f. i. Mariah, Michael).

They aren't going to get the kind of sales they want by selling to audiophiles, be it SACD or DVD-A or both. People who care about improving sound quality over CD are few and far between.

But there is a chance, and nobody knows for sure how it will play out, that people will buy surround sound mixes. Record company executives would sell their souls, if they had souls, to be able to sell huge past catalog titles all over again. The mastering costs would be negligible compared to potential profit.

So far the sales of SACD and DVD-A are relatively tiny. But they don't have much exposure yet either. If DVD-A dies pretty soon, that would probably help. Whether it does or not, there is potential for surround sound titles.

Record companies do not care whether it is mono, stereo, quad, multi, low rez or high rez, as long as they can get sales of back catalog. Their ONLY shot at it is multi-channel, and since SACD offers multi-channel and high-rez both, they'll be offered together.

[vinylrec]

http://home.columbus.rr.com/garthur/beatles.jpg

[Grant]

Originally posted by vinylrec
http://home.columbus.rr.com/garthur/petsounds.jpg
Ist't it beautiful? :)

[GregM]

Vinylrec, that's pretty cool. Too bad I won't be finding that in the bins anytime soon.

Paul, you don't need to tell me record companies want to make money and that their profits are down, or that they are not going to cater to audiophiles. This we all know, and I never said otherwise.

You say there is a chance that people will rush out and buy surround mixes. I say there's no chance. We'll see what happens.

You say the mastering costs would be negligible compared to potential profit. I say that's complete BS. We all thought Sony's SACD releases were going slow until they switched to producing multichannel releases, and now we know what "slow" really is. I have it from sources close to Sony that the production of multichannel content is bringing their ability to produce SACDs to a standstill relative to what they could do if they were allowing themselves to release stereo SACDs. Let's not underestimate the time and cost of producing multichannel content, and let's not overestimate the demand for it.

>> So far the sales of SACD and DVD-A are relatively tiny. But they don't have much exposure yet either. If DVD-A dies pretty soon, that would probably help. Whether it does or not, there is potential for surround sound titles. <<

I agree, for the most part. I just don't see the future of music being "surround sound" in anything beyond a niche of the music buying public.

>> Record companies do not care whether it is mono, stereo, quad, multi, low rez or high rez, as long as they can get sales of back catalog. <<

You just got through telling me they care primarily about money. Thus, they do care, to the extent that they are spending more up front for multichannel with nothing but uncertainty as to whether they can recoup their expenses. That's not a good investment to them.

>> Their ONLY shot at it is multi-channel, and since SACD offers multi-channel and high-rez both, they'll be offered together. <<

I'd say they have a much better shot at transparent industry-wide conversion from CD to SACD where mass production of hybrid titles for 5 years is followed by putting an end to all CD hardware and software, including CD layers of SACDs. Voila. Everyone who didn't adopt during the five year push would then be forced to, unless they just wanted to enjoy their current CDs and stop listening to music when their CDP broke.

I'd say this scenario is *FAR* more likely than engineers laboring meticulously over a multichannel mix on ever title produced and the whole world sitting in their living room in the middle of a 5.1 speaker system to enjoy music.