I need your help! Last 45 RPM choices for the Fantasy (now Concord) labels? [Archive]

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John Oteri

08-12-2004, 12:32 PM

mikelakers

08-12-2004, 12:49 PM

John, I have the Fantasy jazz catalog and I can tell you that there are just too many good 50's jazz albums to choose from I wouldn't know where to begin, it all depends on what you like or who you like.

Sckott

08-12-2004, 01:00 PM

Columbia can say all they want about their Jazz catalog. Fantasy has so many titles, it's very hard to listen to "all the good stuff" in one lifetime. Along with Blue Note, it's just so robust with the best Jazz ever was.

Random recommendation, if you have the ability, pick up Tadd Dameron/John Coltrane's "Mating Call"! Beautiful sound, killer performance.

http://www.cosmik.com/aa-october01/reviews/pics/tadd_dameron.jpg

Steve Hoffman

08-12-2004, 01:16 PM

Steve,

Do you have a list of your favorite jazz albums from the Fantasy catalog? This includes Prestige, Riverside, Contemporary, etc. I have a tremendous chance to buy at under dist. cost whatever I want.

Help!

When I first started working on the 24 karat gold DCC series back in 1992 I had NO IDEA regarding 1950's jazz, DCC had struck a deal with the Fantasy labels to do a bunch of their jazz titles in gold. As you know, my "field" was jazz of the 1920's and 30's. I had to pick some titles for our Gold series. In the good old days I would have just gone to Tower Records on Sunset to hang out and learn about what was good and what was "out" in the world of jazz. Well, those daze are gone so out of desperation I called Ralph Kaffel, president of Fantasy and just plain out asked him: "What are YOUR favorites from your catalog?"

He sent me a great list and from there my research branched out until I felt I had a handle on everything. Fantasy also sent me down 200 of their best selling OJC (Original Jazz Classics) LP's and CD's so I could hear the "sound" of some of these things. A tremendous help.

Anyway, here are some of my favorites from all the Fantasy labels that have GREAT sound quality for the old DCC Gold CD series. PLEASE NOTE THAT SOME WONDERFUL OJC's DID NOT MAKE THIS LIST DO TO SOUND QUALITY ISSUES. This list is about good sound as it is about good music. Sorry, that's just the way I compiled it. There are many more, but I haven't the time right now:

RIVERSIDE RECORDS (mainly engineered by Jack Higgins and Ray Fowler at Reeves Soundcraft Studio)
-------
BILL EVANS TRIO
Everybody Digs Bill Evans
Portrait In Jazz
Live At The Village Vanguard (eng, Dave Jones)
Waltz For Debby (eng, Dave Jones)
Explorations (eng, Bill Stoddard, Bell Sound)
Moon Beams
Interplay (Nola Penthouse)
How My Heart Sings
Live At Shelly's Manne-Hole

Cannonball Adderly Quintet In San Francisco (Overload distortion)
Cannonball Adderly With Bill Evans/Know What I Mean (Bell Sound)

Sonny Rollins/The Sound Of Sonny

WES MONTGOMERY
Movin' Along (Bill Putnam, United Studio)
So Much Guitar
Bags Meets Wes (with Milt Jackson) (Bell Sound)
Full House (Wally Heider)
Fusion (with Strings)
Montgomery Bros./Groove Yard

Chet Baker/Chet
Chet Baker In New York

Johnny Griffin/The Little Giant
Johnny Griffin/The Kerry Dancers

THELONIOUS MONK
Brillant Corners
Monk's Music FAR-MIKED STEREO VERSION (Ray Fowler, stereo eng.)
Monk's Music MONO CLOSE MIKED VERSION (Jack Higgins, mono eng.)
Mulligan Meets Monk
Thelonious Monk With John Coltrane STEREO VERSION
In Orbit WITH CLARK TERRY MONO ONLY

Harold Land/West Coast Blues (eng, Wally Heider)

MONGO SANTAMARIA-Watermelon Man

VARIOUS ARTISTS-New Blue Horns

CHARLIE BYRD/Guitar Artistry Of Charlie Byrd (All Souls' Church remote)

PRESTIGE (all engineered by Rudy Van Gelder)
------------------
MILES DAVIS
The Musings Of Miles
New Miles Davis QUintet
Miles Davis And Milt Jackson/Quintet/Sextet
Cookin'
Workin'
Relaxin'
Steamin'

Sonny Rollins +4
Sonny Rollins/Tenor Madness
Sonny Rollins/Saxophone Colossus

Modern Jazz Quartet/Concorde
MODERN JAZZ QUARTET~Django

JOHN COLTRANE
Tad Dameron with John Coltrane/Mating Call
Tenor Conclave
Coltrane
Traneing In
Soultrane
Cattin' (with Paul Quinichette)
Lush Life
Kenny Burrell & John Coltrane

Gene Ammons/Blue Gene STEREO

Kenny Dorham/Quiet Kenny STEREO

STAX
------------------
Albert King/Live Wire Blues Power
Shaft

FANTASY
------------
VINCE GUARALDI
Jazz Impressions Of Black Orpheus (engineered by Hank McGill, KQED)
In Person
The Latin Side Of Vince Guaraldi (Coast Recording)
Live At El Matador (with Bola Sete)
A Boy Named Charlie Brown
A Charlie Brown Christmas

CONTEMPORARY RECORDS (all engineered by Howard Holtzer or Roy DuNann)
-------------------
HAMPTON HAWES
All Night Session, vol1
All Night Session, vol2-vol3
The Trio/Volume 1 (John Palladino, eng.)
For Real! (With Harold Land & Scott LaFaro)

SHELLY MANNE
----------------
More Swingin' Sounds (FIRST STEREO JAZZ RECORDING)
Jazz Impressions Of MY FAIR LADY
At The Blackhawk, vol 1-5
Sounds Unheard Of!
Jazz Impressions of BELLS ARE RINGING
Jazz Impressions of WEST SIDE STORY

Curtis Counce Group/Landslide
Curtis Counce Group/You Get More Bounce With Curtis Counce
Curtis Counce Group/Carl's Blues

Benny Carter/Jazz Giant
Benny Carter/Swingin' The 20's

Sonny Rollins/Way Out West
Sonny Rollins/The Contemporary Leaders

Barney Kessel/Music To Listen To Barney Kessel By
Barney Kessel/Shelly Manne/Ray Brown/The Poll Winners
Barney Kessell with Art Pepper-Some Like It Hot

ART PEPPER
Meets The Rhythm Section
Plus Eleven
Gettin' Together
Smack Up
Intensity
The Way It Was
Art Pepper And Wayne Marsh/JVC Japan only

Howard Rumsey's Lighthouse All-Stars/Music For Lighthouse Keeping

Teddy Edwards Quartet/Teddy's Ready

Bob Cooper/Coop

Ben Webster/At The Renaissance

HELEN HUMES-Songs I Love To Sing

Ornette Coleman/Something Else!

Wufnpoof

08-12-2004, 01:18 PM

I'll put in a plug here for my favorite Prestige and/or Riverside recordings by Thelonious Monk:

Thelonious Monk Quintet with Sonny Rollins - Monk (starts with "We See")
Thelonious Monk and Sonny Rollins (starts with "The Way You Look Tonight")
Thelonious Monk Quartet - Thelonious in Action (Live at the Five Spot)
Thelonious Monk Quartet - Misterioso (Live at the Five Spot)
Thelonious Monk Plays Duke Ellington
The Unique Thelonious
Thelonious Alone in San Francisco
Monk - Live in France
Monk - Live in Italy

(So btw Steve and me we almost covered his entire post-Blue Note, pre-Columbia oevre! And the other ones from this period are great, too! :D)

John Oteri

08-12-2004, 02:44 PM

When I first started working on the 24 karat gold DCC series back in 1992 I had NO IDEA regarding 1950's jazz, DCC had struck a deal with the Fantasy labels to do a bunch of their jazz titles in gold. As you know, my "field" was jazz of the 1920's and 30's. I had to pick some titles for our Gold series. In the good old days I would have just gone to Tower Records on Sunset to hang out and learn about what was good and what was "out" in the world of jazz. Well, those daze are gone so out of desperation I called Ralph Kaffel, president of Fantasy and just plain out asked him: "What are YOUR favorites from your catalog?"

He sent me a great list and from there my research branched out until I felt I had a handle on everything. Fantasy also sent me down 200 of their best selling OJC (Original Jazz Classics) LP's and CD's so I could hear the "sound" of some of these things. A tremendous help.

Anyway, here are some of my favorites from all the Fantasy labels. PLEASE NOTE THAT SOME DID NOT MAKE THIS LIST DO TO SOUND QUALITY ISSUES. This list is about good sound as it is about good music. Sorry, that's just the way I compiled it. There are many more, but I haven't the time right now:

RIVERSIDE RECORDS (mainly engineered by Jack Higgins and Ray Fowler at Reeves Soundcraft Studio)
-------
BILL EVANS TRIO
Everybody Digs Bill Evans
Portrait In Jazz
Live At The Village Vanguard (eng, Dave Jones)
Waltz For Debby (eng, Dave Jones)
Explorations (eng, Bill Stoddard, Bell Sound)
Moon Beams
Interplay

Cannonball Adderly Quintet In San Francisco
Cannonball Adderly With Bill Evans/Know What I Mean (eng, Wally Heider)

Sonny Rollins/The Sound Of Sonny

WES MONTGOMERY
Movin' Along (Bill Putnam, United Studio)
So Much Guitar
Bags Meets Wes (with Milt Jackson) (Bell Sound)
Full House (Wally Heider)
Fusion (with Strings)
Montgomery Bros./Groove Yard

Chet Baker/Chet
Chet Baker In New York

Johnny Griffin/The Little Giant
Johnny Griffin/The Kerry Dancers

THELONIOUS MONK
Brillant Corners
Monk's Music (Ray Fowler, stereo eng., Jack Higgins, mono eng.)
Mulligan Meets Monk
Thelonious Monk With John Coltrane

Harold Land/West Coast Blues

PRESTIGE (all engineered by Rudy Van Gelder)
------------------
MILES DAVIS
The Musings Of Miles
New Miles Davis QUintet
Miles Davis And Milt Jackson/Quintet/Sextet
Cookin'
Workin'
Relaxin'
Steamin'

Sonny Rollins +4
Sonny Rollins/Tenor Madness
Sonny Rollins/Saxophone Colossus

Modern Jazz Quartet/Concorde

JOHN COLTRANE
Tad Dameron with John Coltrane/Mating Call
Tenor Conclave
Coltrane
Traneing In
Soultrane
Cattin' (with Paul Quinichette)
Lush Life
Kenny Burrell & John Coltrane

Gene Ammons/Blue Gene

Kenny Dorham/Quiet Kenny

STAX
------------------
Albert King/Live Wire Blues Power
Shaft

FANTASY
------------
VINCE GUARALDI (all engineered by Hank McGill, KQED)
Jazz Impressions Of Black Orpheus
In Person
The Latin Side Of Vince Guaraldi
Live At El Matador (with Bola Sete)
A Boy Named Charlie Brown
A Charlie Brown Christmas

CONTEMPORARY RECORDS (all engineered by Howard Holtzer or Roy DuNann)
-------------------
HAMPTON HAWES
All Night Session, vol1
All Night Session, vol2
The Trio/Volume 1 (John Palladino, eng.)
For Real! (With Harold Land & Scott LaFaro)

SHELLY MANNE
----------------
More Swingin' Sounds (FIRST STEREO JAZZ RECORDING)
Jazz Impressions Of MY FAIR LADY
At The Blackhawk, vol 1-5
Sounds Unheard Of!
Jazz Impressions of BELLS ARE RINGING
Jazz Impressions of WEST SIDE STORY

Curtis Counce Group/Landslide
Curtis Counce Group/You Get More Bounce With Curtis Counce

Benny Carter/Jazz Giant
Benny Carter/Swingin' The 20's

Sonny Rollins/Way Out West
Sonny Rollins/The Contemporary Leaders

Barney Kessel/Music To LIsten To Barney Kessel By
Barney Kessel/Shelly Manne/Ray Brown/The Poll Winners
Some Like It Hot

ART PEPPER
Meets The Rhythm Section
Plus Eleven
Gettin' Together
Smack Up
Intensity
The Way It Was
Art Pepper And Wayne Marsh/JVC Japan only

Howard Rumsey's Lighthouse All-Stars/Music For Lighthouse Keeping

Teddy Edwards Quartet/Teddy's Ready

Bob Cooper/Coop

Ben Webster/At The Renaissance

Ornette Coleman/Something Else!

Steve,

Thanks for typing this out for me. I am interested in good sound too. I understand that the term is relative when discussing the engineering styles of Roy Du Nann vs. Rudy Van Gelder but I know exactly what you mean.

That first Hampton Hawes on Contemporary was recorded at Capitol (you said John Palladino engineered it)? Where were the rest of the Contemporary sides recorded?

Steve Hoffman

08-12-2004, 03:14 PM

Steve,

Thanks for typing this out for me. I am interested in good sound too. I understand that the term is, um, relative when discussing the engineering styles of Roy Du Nann vs. Rudy Van Gelder but I know exactly what you mean.

That first Hampton Hawes on Contemporary was recorded at Capitol (you said John Palladino engineered it)? Where were the rest of the Contemporary sides recorded?

Lester Koenig did all of the Good Time Jazz and Contemporary stuff at Capitol's Melrose studio when he first formed the labels. He liked the sound in there the best of all of the LA studios.

At the beginning of 1956, when Capitol started winding down the Melrose studio and building the new Tower studio, Les asked a few of the Capitol engineers to help him build his OWN studio. Why should he pay a bunch of money to a studio? How hard could it be to do it himself? So, he hired an engineer (Roy DuNann) and with the help of some moonlighting Capitol engineers, built a studio in the mail room/stock room of Contemporary Records on Melrose Ave. So, basically when Capitol's Melrose studio closed down, BOTH the Capitol Tower studio and the Contemporary/Good Time Jazz studios opened. Lester got a portable Ampex 300 and a portable 350-2 and in July 1956, recorded for the first time at the new room. If the jazzers were surprised to be recording in the back stock room, they didn't let it get in the way of the music. The first thing recorded in there (Shelly Manne and his Men "More Swinging Sounds") was the first studio jazz recording done in stereo. If you find yourself on Melrose Place in LA in the near future, take a drive past 8181 Melrose Place. That was the home of Contemporary/Good Time Jazz.

Look at some of the Contemporary artwork and you'll see various shots of the recording sessions with record boxes and mail room stuff in the background. Art Pepper "That's The Way It Was.." is a great example.

This is why most people feel that Contemporary had the best recorded sound of the 1950's; it was a VERY simple setup, three tube microphones, a mixer for stereo and a mixer for mono and two tape recorders. THAT WAS IT! They added all of the EQ and compression and echo in the MASTERING stage so the actual master tapes are free of all of that. It's great fun to play back the "raw" tapes. They sound so amazing. I've raved about the sound of this studio before:

http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8379&perpage=20&pagenumber=1

http://www.allaboutjazz.com/php/article.php?id=13916

Here are two amazing discography sites:

This one lists all the Contemporary 12" and 10" records ever issued on the original label:

http://www.jazzdiscography.com/Labels/contemp.htm

This one lists all the Prestige and Riverside recording sessions and a bunch of other neat stuff:

http://www.jazzdisco.org/

mikelakers

08-12-2004, 03:31 PM

Thanks for the great list and interesting story on Contemporary Records, Steve.

I've always like the sound of Contemporary Records(I'm close to completing the whole catalog) and now knowing how they do their recordings makes me want to do my own home brew with my Ampex 351.

BTW Steve, what kind of microphones did they used?

Steve Hoffman

08-12-2004, 03:42 PM

Microphones? Glad you asked.

They loved (as I love) the legendary tube mics of the day, especially:

The amazing AKG C-12

The neat (and now expensive) Neumann-U-47

KM-56

They used three mics per session usually, unless there were more than four guys playing.

They always used Reeves Soundcraft recording tape (they must have had a deal) and it's proven to be just as rock solid as Scotch 111 in holding up over time.

Done A Ton

08-12-2004, 04:21 PM

Three OJC LPs that I really enjoy:
Charles Mingus-Town Hall Concert (OJC-042)
Charles Mingus- At The Bohemia (OJC-045)
Charles Mingus- Right Now:Live At The Jazz Workshop (OJC-237)

-=Rudy=-

08-12-2004, 04:24 PM

Also on Fantasy, seek out the 2-on-1 CD called "Cal Tjader's Greatest Hits", or on LP, the Vol. 1 and Vol. 2 of "Greatest Hits". I normally don't recommend compilations, but these were put together many years ago, all from Tjader's first stint with Fantasy. The song selection and sequencing is, IMHO, perfect, and a good jumping off point for other albums of his from that era. (Fantasy has been releasing his recorings from both eras over the years, although it has not been uncommon for them to do two-fers, change the title, and delete a track or two.) He recorded for Verve (under Creed Taylor) in the 60s, did a few for Skye (which DCC rescued and reissued :thumbsup: ), then returned to Fantasy in the 70s. My favorite 70s Tjader albums on Fantasy are "Guarabe", "Amazonas" and "Primo" (w/ Tito Puente). I have just about every album Tjader ever recorded.

One thing I noticed though: I got a limited edition red vinyl reissue of Tjader's first Fantasy album, Mambo With Tjader (in the OJC series, released in the 80s or 90s I believe), and I must say the sound is disappointing at best. It sounds like it was all run through a limiter, and to me lacks something the same CD reissue has. Even the original mono LP, which I own in a slightly worn condition, has more life to it, and is close to what the CD offers.

I should add that Tjader plays the vibes and, on some early LPs, other percussion as well, like timbales. His recordings are mainly Latin oriented, but he's done some good straight-ahead LPs as well (San Francisco Moods, Jazz At The Blackhawk, Stan Getz with Cal Tjader, etc.).

RDK

08-12-2004, 04:25 PM

John, see if Steve will let you borrow those 200 OJCs that Fantasy sent down to him! :D

Seriously, there's so much great stuff in those OJCs that it's not even funny. Steve's list is good, but it really covers only the more popular/well known titles. There are lesser known gems to be discovered as well. What sort of styles or instruments do you favor: piano trios, blowing sessions, hard bop, more modal stuff, etc.?

Steve Hoffman

08-12-2004, 04:33 PM

Yes, my list was only the "24 Karat Gold" possibilities list; the list of stuff that I personally examined for sound quality. Hundreds more.

-=Rudy=-

08-12-2004, 04:40 PM

I haven't bought a LOT of the material on Fantasy's labels, but IMHO it's hard to go wrong since all of it was good music. :) Of the ones I have, I don't think there's a bad one in the bunch!

Paul Chang

08-12-2004, 05:34 PM

Steve,

Did you give any input to Chad for picking the Fantasy 45 Series list?

GregM

08-12-2004, 07:23 PM

I'll put in a good word for all the Booker Ervin "book" series OJCs. I sure wish that stuff would be released on SACD.

As good as Riverside, Prestige, Contemporary and the rest of the OJC labels are, my favorite label remains Blue Note.

Steve Hoffman

08-12-2004, 07:51 PM

Steve,

Did you give any input to Chad for picking the Fantasy 45 Series list?

Sure.

Ed Bishop

08-12-2004, 08:47 PM

As good as Riverside, Prestige, Contemporary and the rest of the OJC labels are, my favorite label remains Blue Note.
I used to feel the same way, but as you dig deeper into those respective catalogs, the more impressive you realize they are. And I'm still nowhere near hearing half of it! The joys of discovery...:)

:ed:

Steve Hoffman

08-12-2004, 09:28 PM

Our historian in residence Martin (MMM) actually found what is on the site of Contemporary Records building on Melrose today.

R.M. Barokh Antiques
8481 Melrose Place • Los Angeles • CA 90069 • 323.655.2771

Take a look:

http://www.rmbarokhantiques.com/

I wonder if they have any idea that so much great music was recorded in their back room?

MMM

08-12-2004, 10:17 PM

Our historian in residence Martin...

:laugh: :)

Steve Hoffman

08-12-2004, 10:19 PM

Martin,

You should email them. Tell them that the city should put a plaque in their store room: "The site of the historic Contemporary Recording Studio (and mail room). Classic jazz artists such as Art Pepper, Shelly Manne and Sonny Rollins recorded some of their best work here".

I doubt anyone would really care. (Shrugs)

MMM

08-12-2004, 10:43 PM

I'll try to remember to do it tomorrow, Steve.

quicksrt

08-12-2004, 11:01 PM

quicksrt

08-12-2004, 11:11 PM

Steve Hoffman

08-12-2004, 11:16 PM

[QUOTE=Steve Hoffman]

FANTASY
------------
VINCE GUARALDI (all engineered by Hank McGill, KQED)
Live At El Matador (with Bola Sete)
QUOTE]

Steve,

I love your work!

But this album I found at a thrift store, stone mint white label promo, original as they get. And the sound was so flat, dull and murky, that after having for 6 or 7 odd years, and trying to get passed the sound quality, I dumped it on ebay and got $11.00 for it.

Perhaps you heard it done right, and a far better later OJC. But to me, it sounded like it was blown during the tracking, and had some unfixable phase problems on this original mono LP. Sad, because it was the cleanest vintage LP this side of a Fantasy pressing plate I have ever seen. I still think about the deep groove, and the way the crisp inner clung to the vinyl as I pulled it out, and that white label with no spindle marks. Untouched.

Jeff

Jeff,

First of all, yes, I've heard the master tape. Get a late OJC LP cutting if you want to hear this in it's glory.

The phase problem? There was NO mono tape of this made, just the stereo reels. To make the mono LP, they combined the channels and threw the sound out of phase. Sad but true. The notes are right in the tape box. Most old Fantasy pressings really are not great. The OJC I have (actually it's on a modern light blue Fantasy label) sounds pretty much like the master tape.