Steve: curious question about Beatles "White Album"

[ascot]

Steve, I have been lurking around this board for many months and I finally have something to ask! This is out of curiousity only.

If you had the opportunity to remaster the White Album, and you got to "Revolution 9", how do you think you would approach something like that?

I am no expert on how a disc was mastered, so I won't even speculate how EMI transferred it. I just know I hear a lot of hiss and a scratchiness in the panned effects/voices that I've read came from the mixing board.

If you apply the "breath of life" to it, does it turn into the "kiss of death" when played backwards? :D

I appreciate your thoughts on this unique entry in the Beatles' catalog.

Thanks!

[Steve Hoffman]

Hi Ascot,

Thanks for posting!

Rev. #9 is what it is. I'd just transfer it straight and let the noise fall where it may!

[Ronflugelguy]

Steve, Good answer!

[nashreed]

I've always wondered...what does "Revolution 9" sound like on the original mono lp?
I can't imagine.:confused: Anybody?


Thanks.
nashreed

[Steve Hoffman]

It sounds the same to me.

Luke might know if it's a "fold-down" of the stereo or not.

It seems like doing a mono AND stereo mix of this thing would result in two TOTALLY different versions, with different loops coming in at different times, with the result that the mixes would be sounding nothing like each other.

That's why I think the mono is a fold-down of the stereo version.

[Uncle Al]

Rev 9 sounds pretty much the same - except no panning (obviously). The only curious mix difference is the initial coversation that comes directly after the final fade of "Can You Take Me Back" is mixed louder and clearer (something about apologizing for not getting a bottle of Claret, and being called a "cheeky bitch"). This is mostly muffled mumbling on the stereo and much more upfront in the mono. The rest may as well be a "fold down".

[Matt]

When did the Beatles start switching their focus to the stereo mixes? I know they focused on mono for the Sgt. Pepper-era music, and stereo was obviously the focus on Abbey Road, but did they shift gears when they did Abbey Road, or was it much earlier?

[Uncle Al]

The White album was the last album to have a unique stereo and mono mixes. The mono mix was not released in the US. There were also mono versions of the Yellow Submarine soundtrack (even though they were just fold down of the stereo). This was also not released in the US. I think there were some South American issues of Abbey Road in mono - not worth seeking out. The most curious "late" period Beatle collectible may just be the 78 RPM version of "Hey Jude" issued in India.

[Andrew]

I think Lewisohn's book mentioned Rev. #9 as being one of their first songs mixed for stereo before the mono was done, due to the complicated sound effects (all the Abbey Road control rooms were used for running John and Yoko's tape loops).

[Dugan]

According to Mark Lewisohn's book (page 150):

"Tuesday, 20 August
'Revolution 9' was obviously too complicated top remix for mono from the original four- track tape, as was the customary procedure, so the mono mix was a straightforward dub ofb the best avalible stereo mix, the 25 June remix two."
An improved mono copy was later made on Monday, August 26.

In regards to the YS tracks, even though the mono version, released on Jan 17, 1969, was also fold down mixes according to the book there is in the EMI library a mono master tape, for a seven inch 33 1/3 EP, compiled and banded on March 13 by Abbey Road employee Edward Gadsby-Toni, with the following line up:
Side A: Only a Northern Song, Hey Bulldog, Across the Universe.
Side B: All Together Now, It's All Too Much.

Of course, it was never issued. :(

[lukpac]

Originally posted by Steve Hoffman
Luke might know if it's a "fold-down" of the stereo or not.

Dugan beat me to it!

Although, I really don't care. I listen to that "song" about once every 4 years or something. Any more and I get a headache...:rolleyes:

[MagicAlex]

Originally posted by lukpac


Dugan beat me to it!

Although, I really don't care. I listen to that "song" about once every 4 years or something. Any more and I get a headache...:rolleyes:

Do you think it was art or do you think it was filler? :rolleyes:

Number 9....number 9.....number 9...................

[Steve Hoffman]

It sets a mood, that's for sure. And we all know at least one little part of it by heart, even after all these years...

I wish I could play you guys some of our narrated alignment tapes we use in our work. Very much like "No. 9".....

Can't imagine what they were going for....But neither could Paul and George Martin...

For me, it nicely reminds me of (va, va voom) Heather. Back when she was 13. She hated that thing so much that she would give the tone arm a little "flick" with her finger to get to "Goodnight"...

[Vivaldinization]

Originally posted by Dugan
According to Mark Lewisohn's book (page 150):

"Tuesday, 20 August
'Revolution 9' was obviously too complicated top remix for mono from the original four- track tape, as was the customary procedure, so the mono mix was a straightforward dub ofb the best avalible stereo mix, the 25 June remix two."
An improved mono copy was later made on Monday, August 26.

In regards to the YS tracks, even though the mono version, released on Jan 17, 1969, was also fold down mixes according to the book there is in the EMI library a mono master tape, for a seven inch 33 1/3 EP, compiled and banded on March 13 by Abbey Road employee Edward Gadsby-Toni, with the following line up:
Side A: Only a Northern Song, Hey Bulldog, Across the Universe.
Side B: All Together Now, It's All Too Much.

Of course, it was never issued. :( '


That's the stuff on the Lost Pepperland Reel.

-D

[Highway Star]

Wasn't there some brouhaha with George Martin over Rev/9 being included on the White Album? Seems like someone tried to talk Lennon out of including it, or at least tried to talk him into releasing it as a bonus 45. Some really wild stuff there Johnny!

[MagicAlex]

I think that I read in the McCartney biography that he was doing alot of experimentation with loop recordings around 1968 and that he had introduced them to John and the rest of the band. He used to get together with a group of friends at his flat and make all these strange recordings. From what I remember John really liked the idea and hence Revolution #9.

Can someone else who read the book confirm this?

_______________________

Turn me on, dead man!

[dbryant]

Revolution 9 is the one Beatles track I've found myself enjoying more on CD than I ever did on vinyl. The flat soundstage, the etch around images, all the stuff that can make voices and instruments sound LESS natural, help me to see it in abstract, almost visual, terms -- which, I imagine, is the point. By this point, Lennon and Harrison especially seemed to have more than a little contempt for the phenomenon of their celebrity, and a willingness to spend their popular capital on projects that could be perceived to undermine it. Compared to the work of avant-gardists who devote there careers to similar projects, it's a little crude, but I think the Beatles' formal skills are very much in evidence here, and serve them well. It's not my favorite, but, on the whole, I find it a little easier to sit through than Honey Pie.;)

[Vivaldinization]

Rev #9 usually gets quite a bit of crap heaped on it, but I've always enjoyed it. I've heard enough mediocre sound collages to know when something's done *well*, and as Rev #9 is genuinely spooky, has atmosphere, et cetera, I do tend to appreciate it.

-D

[Uncle Al]

Well, FWIW, I have teenage kids who have beeen Beatle-ized by (if nothing else) osmosis. The daughter* (16) especially connects all of her current music to the Beatles in a "musical roots" sense. Anyway - she decided she wanted to experience the Beatles in an "album sense" - not just a collection of songs, but hearing them in their proper order and context.

She never skips Rev9.

She told me that the "chaos" of the collage so perfectly contrasts the simple lullabye of Goodnight that to hear them separated lesens the effect of the whole. I love that kid.

*Point of interest (to me anyway) - she noticed that the tune John Lennon whistles at the end of "The Two of Us" was the same melody as the "Hawaian ending" of "Hello Goodbye". I never noticed that. I posted this to rec.music.beatles - and they never noticed it either. I e-mailed the adminstaror of the "What Goes On" Beatles recorded anamoly site, and he has included this in one of his more recent updates. Sharp kid (or at least a dull parent - lol).

[John Carsell]

After all these years, every time I hear it there's still something in there I hadn't been aware of before.

[lukpac]

Originally posted by John Carsell
After all these years, every time I hear it there's still something in there I hadn't been aware of before.

Yeah, I will give you that.

Hrmph. I guess I'm all alone on this one...:(

[Dugan]

Originally posted by David Goodwin
'


That's the stuff on the Lost Pepperland Reel.

-D

Some of it. LPR includes the unedited mono mix of "It's All Too Much" and doesn't have the mono mix of "Across the Universe".

[Dob]

Well, Luke, I don't know if I am in agreement with you, but...

The only reason anyone cares about "Revolution 9" is because it's THE BEATLES, and therefore has all sorts of meaning and resonance attached to it. If some "no name" band had recorded it, it would be regarded as a joke, at best. And, for me, once every four years is way too often - I think I've listened to it twice! Yep, I skip it when I play the album (though I've never flicked the tonearm).

Speaking of jokes, it would be funny if any band actually did a cover of this...

[Michael]

I think #9 has alot of YOKO in it!

[Vivaldinization]

Originally posted by Dob
Well, Luke, I don't know if I am in agreement with you, but...

The only reason anyone cares about "Revolution 9" is because it's THE BEATLES, and therefore has all sorts of meaning and resonance attached to it. If some "no name" band had recorded it, it would be regarded as a joke, at best. And, for me, once every four years is way too often - I think I've listened to it twice! Yep, I skip it when I play the album (though I've never flicked the tonearm).

Speaking of jokes, it would be funny if any band actually did a cover of this...

I'm honestly not sure if that's true. I maintain that I'm thoroughly impressed by it. IMO, the only other decent sound collage is by Zappa (Chrome Plated Megaphone) and even THAT doesn't approach the sort of mood Rev #9 is able to set. I dunno, it's always transfixed me.

-D