View Full Version : Should I get off the LP wagon?
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Paul L.
05-15-2002, 06:58 AM
I am sitting on the fence when it comes to the LP. For one thing, there are too many formats. Although lots of people say that the 45 and the 78 sound better than the 33, it seems like almost all the vinyl I'm potentially interested in is done at 33. I hate to optimize for 33 when there's the chance that the same titles may come out in 45 or 78 and I'd have to buy them again.
Plus, when I go out looking for vinyl, Best Buy and Circuit City clerks don't have any idea what I'm talking about. I see LPs at Goodwill, but there are rarely any classic rock titles, and never any DCC titles. What are the record companies thinking of? They have no promotion at all.
I heard some LPs at a friend's house recently and they sounded like they were mastered badly. Why should I buy into a format that has some badly mastered releases? Especially when this format may not be successful.
My friend says he used to have problems with the cat jumping on his turntable, and that when the kids would run through the room they would sometimes make the stylus jump out of the groove. He solved the problem by drilling holes in his living room floor, down through the basement, through the basement floor, to the ground, and mounting the turntable's legs on pillars formed from kiln-treated southern Ohio clay. His wife came home, saw what he'd done, packed the kids and cat and divorced him.
What I think I will do is wait to get into vinyl until there is a universal player that will handle CDs and records made at any speed, provided it has digital outs so I can rip tunes off my vinyl for playback in my car.
Steve w
05-15-2002, 07:12 AM
That's funny!
Todd Fredericks
05-15-2002, 07:13 AM
I'm still waiting for a universal machine that will accept my blasted Edison cylinders!
Sckott
05-15-2002, 07:14 AM
I just made a Rega Planar 3 turntable platter out of cork and paper (not a mat, the platter). I coulnd't believe what a difference it made. Hey, and the SOTA reflex clamp fits on like a dream now! Cost me all of $5. This isn't a joke either! Cool thing is, my girlfriend won't leave me because I made a circle out of cork, put it on my turntable and played a record on it.
I'll get some photos of what I did later....
BradOlson
05-15-2002, 07:19 AM
LP's have actually been around a lot longer than CD's have been. Every format has poorly mastered titles.
Kevin Sypolt
05-15-2002, 08:33 AM
Originally posted by Paul L.
What I think I will do is wait to get into vinyl until there is a universal player that will handle CDs and records made at any speed, provided it has digital outs so I can rip tunes off my vinyl for playback in my car.
:)
Good stuff! Actually, to my amazement, I did see several makes of turntables at the local "Guitar Center" last week that feature "S/PDIF digital outputs". Talk about a waste of money...
Yea, I'm thinking of getting off the wagon, too.
Going thru my old vinyl, I am finding more duds than keepers. :( On the other hand, my CD copies of the same title sound like.... duds.
Got all excited once and found Elton John's "Don't shoot me..." on USA vinyl. Original copy! Before I even got it home, Steve H. said that the first three million copies were produced with the dolby switch 'out'. Boy was he right - never heard such distrotion in the high end. :mad:
Played Charlie Daniels first album the other night. Mud, pure mud. :mad:
Can't afford them thar high end phono preamps. $500.00 US = $800.00 CAD!?! And that's a cheap one!?! Don't think so!
I've never found a .25, .50 or 1.00 record album that was playable. Frisbee for the dog perhaps..... :rolleyes: Or if I ever want to destroy my stylus, I can use one of these 'great finds'!
Of course all these depressed comments will go out the window if I ever find a Steve Hoffman LP! I'll be glad I kept my TT then!
:)
PsychFan
05-15-2002, 09:05 AM
Originally posted by Gary
I've never found a .25, .50 or 1.00 record album that was playable. Frisbee for the dog perhaps..... :rolleyes: Or if I ever want to destroy my stylus, I can use one of these 'great finds'!
Wow, I guess it really depends on where you are. I guess I should feel lucky ... I routinely buy armloads of perfectly clean and enjoyable LPs for $1 or $2 each.
I guess I shouldn't expect that state of affairs to last forever, though ... sooner or later, the supply will surely dry up everywhere.
reidc
05-15-2002, 09:08 AM
Originally posted by Paul L.
Plus, when I go out looking for vinyl, Best Buy and Circuit City clerks don't have any idea what I'm talking about. I see LPs at Goodwill, but there are rarely any classic rock titles, and never any DCC titles. What are the record companies thinking of? They have no promotion at all.
I heard some LPs at a friend's house recently and they sounded like they were mastered badly. Why should I buy into a format that has some badly mastered releases? Especially when this format may not be successful.
Boy- and I thought I had problems finding 8-tracks at Circuit City. GEEZ- don't these people ever know-- The Customer Is always Right!!!!
My old AMC Gremlin is too rough riding to play CD's in- 8-tracks forever baby!:cool: :D
Tullman
05-15-2002, 09:49 AM
I just picked up a sealed Allan Parsons "A Turn of a Friendly Card on vinyl. It sounds real good, MUUUUUUUCH better than the cd.
I tried playing an lp in my car once but it didn't work. Lovely analog tone though...
Hey they DID have LP players in cars once, you know. :)
I wonder how they delt with vinyl warp?
Picked up a stereo LP of "Casino Royale" 6 or 7 months ago for 50 cents. Record was in excellent condition and the cover still has shrink wrap on it.
Steve Hoffman
05-15-2002, 11:00 AM
Some LP's sound great, some sound not so great
Some CD's sound great, some sound not so great
Some SACD's sound great, some sound not so great
Some DVD-A's sound great, some sound not so great...
(It's the mastering...)
But with most used LP's costing only one or two dollars, one can take more of a chance, IMO.
I think everyone should have a turntable in their system if they can. There are bargains out there that just don't exist in any other format.
At my house, digital and analog co-exist, and have for almost 20 years!
Sckott
05-15-2002, 11:03 AM
Originally posted by RDK
I tried playing an lp in my car once but it didn't work. Lovely analog tone though...
I tried to feed a 45 into my car deck with the slot in the front. I'd think because it has only 2 songs on it, that it would fit! Hell, a CD has at least 14 tracks on it. I might have to bring it in for repair. It's just NOT backwards compatible. Damn, if those record companies are making me go all over town trying to find discs that will fit!
I wonder how long it will be before they make SACD decks for the car? Nothing like all that higher resolution audio sound going to waste against wind, road noise, and broken mufflers. :D
Originally posted by Steve Hoffman
Some LP's sound great, some sound not so great
Some CD's sound great, some sound not so great
Some SACD's sound great, some sound not so great
Some DVD-A's sound great, some sound not so great...
(It's the mastering...)
But with most used LP's costing only one or two dollars, one can take more of a chance, IMO.
I think everyone should have a turntable in their system if they can. There are bargains out there that just don't exist in any other format.
At my house, digital and analog co-exist, and have for almost 20 years!
Couldn't have said it better myself, Steve!
I've got about 1500 lps and about an equal number of cds, though i consider myself much more of a digital than analog guy these days. I have two turntables and three cd players in my home (not to mention cd in the car) and for several practical reasons am unwilling and/or unable to invest in a vinyl playback system that can surpass my (relatively modest) cd system. The music is much more important to me than the format, and with two babies in the house the convenience of cd is yet another plus in the digital column. That said, i get such a great kick hunting down cheap lps at thrift shops and used record stores that I've bought more used vinyl in the last year than i have in the ten years previous. There's so much music that's unique to either format that I really have little patience for anyone who refuses to listen to one or the other.
Ray
Grant
05-15-2002, 11:24 AM
Originally posted by Steve Hoffman
Some LP's sound great, some sound not so great
Some CD's sound great, some sound not so great
Some SACD's sound great, some sound not so great
Some DVD-A's sound great, some sound not so great...
(It's the mastering...)
But with most used LP's costing only one or two dollars, one can take more of a chance, IMO.
I think everyone should have a turntable in their system if they can. There are bargains out there that just don't exist in any other format.
At my house, digital and analog co-exist, and have for almost 20 years!
'Nuff said! Steve said it all! I discover more music by buying old vinyl. But I deal with CD.
Paul L., nice work!;)
Originally posted by Steve Hoffman
Some LP's sound great, some sound not so great
Some CD's sound great, some sound not so great
Some SACD's sound great, some sound not so great
Some DVD-A's sound great, some sound not so great...
(It's the mastering...)
All true, but one still can not make a silk purse out of a sows ear if the original sessions where badly recorded or heavaly damaged afterwords. It seems to me that many of the classic rocks songs were recorded on the cheap, even though the artist had a good rep for sales/content or following. A bad recording session on poor equipment and inept recording tech's is a recipe for bad sound no matter what format you put it on! Maybe they should be the ones that use MP-3 with 100% compression!
Originally posted by Steve Hoffman
I think everyone should have a turntable in their system if they can. There are bargains out there that just don't exist in any other format.
At my house, digital and analog co-exist, and have for almost 20 years!
Turntables are fun!
And don't forget the rare stuff that never has - and never will - be transferred to CD. Or the stuff that was transferred or remastered BADLY to CD like Klaatu.... :mad: (that STILL hurts! :( )
(I promise never to get my hopes up again unless Steve mastered it)
Grant
05-15-2002, 12:17 PM
Well, for the stuff you can't get on CD, there's always CD-R...you can roll your own...uh...put your own spin on things!:)
Beagle
05-15-2002, 12:34 PM
Originally posted by Steve Hoffman
But with most used LP's costing only one or two dollars, one can take more of a chance, IMO.
I think everyone should have a turntable in their system if they can. There are bargains out there that just don't exist in any other formatPrecisely. And it's a lot of fun and a cool rush to pick up a great score for a buck or two. I found an old black label/silver print Monument LP of The Best Of Roy Orbison for $3 and I can't begin to tell you how clear and natural it sounds.
PsychFan
05-15-2002, 12:40 PM
Originally posted by Beagle
I found an old black label/silver print Monument LP of The Best Of Roy Orbison for $3 and I can't begin to tell you how clear and natural it sounds.
I think I have the same one; it's very very nice indeed.
I recently found an early grey-label mono Love is the Thing LP by Nat King Cole in great shape for $1. That's one of the reasons I dig records. It should hold me until I can hunt down a copy of the DCC ... :)
Michael
05-15-2002, 12:50 PM
Originally posted by Steve Hoffman
Some LP's sound great, some sound not so great
Some CD's sound great, some sound not so great
Some SACD's sound great, some sound not so great
Some DVD-A's sound great, some sound not so great...
(It's the mastering...)
But with most used LP's costing only one or two dollars, one can take more of a chance, IMO.
I think everyone should have a turntable in their system if they can. There are bargains out there that just don't exist in any other format.
At my house, digital and analog co-exist, and have for almost 20 years!
Steve,
I agree totally!
I still have a few hundred vinyl holdouts! LOL! My TT went bye-bye and I most likely will not replace it. I just love the CD format, The work you put into your mastering makes my opinion stronger for my love of the CD. The CD can sound as good as vinyl without all the extra noise and vinyl anomalies that are not on the master tape!
I, along with many others in the world of music and audio, still say there are many "problems" that the human ear CAN hear with digital playback. No matter how good the mastering engineer is, he or she cannot escape the limitations built in to the digital format. I know Doug Sax has commented many times on how digital "changes" (for the worse was his intention) the sound that he knows was on the master tape. Yes, there are limitations in vinyl, but not as sonically intruding as digital can be. Yes, you can live with both. CD's are easier to set up and playback. And I agree with Steve that there are good and bad records as well as good and bad cd's. The point is ON THE WHOLE, which format is delivering what was on the master tape to the AVERAGE listener at home. I say average because you should not have to spend 5 figures on a cd playback system to finally say "it ain't harsh now." It better not be at those prices. I have yet to hear a $1000 cd player come anywhere near the resolution and natural harmonics that a $1000 turntable setup can deliver. And I'm not just talking about playing one or two "audiophile" cd's. Let's take 20 cd's and 20 or their vinyl counterparts and compare. All I ask is that the cartridge be set up properly. Many TT users have never heard good analog simply because their cartridges, arms or tables were not properly set up. And that's not a fair comparison.
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