View Full Version : Ebay Bids (MagicAlex)
reidc
05-11-2002, 10:09 PM
Yesterday I stumbled on an auction that our own MagicAlex was winning(McCartney Gold Band On the Run). The bid was only somewhere in the LOW teens for the piece, and I was going to get in the action with a last minute snipe bid, but couldn't stay awake with a 1 AM close.
Anyway- I checked it out just now to see who won and what it closed at, and looking at the bid history yielded a double take on my part.
It appears that MagicAlex had a proxy bid in up to $24.44, but he was winning at $10.54(I think). Someone else put in a bid of $12, and someone else a bid of $14, but MagicAlex's proxy would have had him winning with a bid of $14.50 or $15!
How is it that someone else comes along with a minute left and makes 1 swiper bid of exactly $.50 higher than Alex? I can understand 2, 3, or even 4 bids by the person bumping it up a couple of dollars at a time, and then finding himself outbid so quickly by the proxy bid.
Anyone else smell something here, or is it just me?
Chris
Holy Zoo
05-11-2002, 10:25 PM
I dunno - I just looked and the bid history looks normal to me.
Lets say that the sniper comes in last second and bids $30. He hopes he gets it for just a bit over $15, but he's happy to pay all the way to $30. MagicAlex's bid poops out at $24.44, and so the sniper gets it for the next highest increment, which is $24.94.
Since noone else bid anything higher, it doesn't go any higher than MagicAlex's max bid plus the minimum bid increment.
So, the sniper didn't just "happen" to bid $.50 higher than Magic's bid. He probably bid somehting significatly higher than his bid, and it was enough to everwhelm Magic's $24.44 bid. Of course to everyone else, it just looks like the sniper got lucky and bid the exact right amount.
Hmm... I just realized I'm rambling.:)
Am I making sense?
HZ
Chris,
there's nothing dubious about this - the bid history records the amounts of each persons maximum bid except that of the winner. The winner's maximum bid is not revealed, only the winning bid amount is shown in the history (ie the minimum bid increment above the previous highest bid).
I haven't explained it very clearly (it's 6.30AM) but if you check out some other completed items you will see that the history always only shows the winning bid (and all the losing maximum bids) - not the maximum bid the winner was willing to pay.
Still not the clearest explanation - I think I should get some sleep :p.
Looks like Jeff got there before me - I think you did a better job of explaining it than me though HZ :D
reidc
05-11-2002, 10:33 PM
Hey HZ-
no wonder you're a MOD here- you keep us at our senses!!!
Yeah- I just figured out what you said. He could have put in a max bid of $35, and would have been hapy to pay it, but since all he really needed was 50 cents higher than MagicAlex- he got for the 50 cents higher.
You are right- it looks like a "lucky" bid.
Maybe I should get to sleep- 1:30 AM here!
thanks
Chris
Uhhh guys,
It's called proxy bidding and it's just as HZ described. (Rookies, sheesh!:rolleyes: ). Relax, just kidding.:D
MagicAlex
05-12-2002, 07:43 AM
Unfortunately (for me), I believe the guy got lucky. I think HZ's description of the process fits the bill. I have won may auctions over the years by just going that extra .50. You would think that the winner, if he bid at the last minute, would have put in a higher bid than .50 over if he was serious about winning the item though, wouldn't you?
I'll nab it someday! :rolleyes:
Originally posted by MagicAlex
You would think that the winner, if he bid at the last minute, would have put in a higher bid than .50 over if he was serious about winning the item though, wouldn't you?
MagicAlex, I believe that you're missing something here. He could have bid any amount higher than you and it would only go up to the next increment ($.50, until after $25.00 and then $1.00). He could have put in a bid at $50.00 and it will only go up as previously stated, as long as his high bid is higher than yours it will only go up $.50-$1.00 past your top bid for a win. This is called Proxy Bidding in the computer auction world. ;)
Tullman
05-12-2002, 08:55 AM
I prefer to call people that don't bid until there are seconds left in the auction sleezebags not snipers. If you want an item you must protect your bid at the end. Bid with 5 seconds left to prevent the sleezebag from getting the item for a mere .50 over you.
MagicAlex
05-12-2002, 08:58 AM
Originally posted by Dave
MagicAlex, I believe that you're missing something here. He could have bid any amount higher than you and it would only go up to the next increment ($.50, until after $25.00 and then $1.00). He could have put in a bid at $50.00 and it will only go up as previously stated, as long as his high bid is higher than yours it will only go up $.50-$1.00 past your top bid for a win. This is called Proxy Bidding in the computer auction world. ;)
True Dave...I guess I was thinking about 'viewing bid history as a seller'. I've sold much more than I've bid on. On that page you are able to see the highest bid by each bidder. Only the seller can view this info.
Originally posted by Tullman
I prefer to call people that don't bid until there are seconds left in the auction sleezebags not snipers.
Why are snipers "sleazebags"? Whom are they hurting?
If the seller feels that the winning sniper won the item at too low of a price (no bidding war), he should have set a reserve or made the opening bid higher. If the bidder was beaten by a sniper, he should have set his proxy bid higher. I have no sympathy for either of them, especially the losing bidder, who is angry because he didn't get the great deal he thought he would get. Tough.
mikenyc
05-12-2002, 10:30 AM
All is fair in Love, War and eBay !
Tullman,
We all play by the same rules. Swimming with the sharks when you're just a flounder is just a bad idea. I've been on both sides of the fence myself. It's simply a game of how much are really willing to pay, and do you want it bad enough to be there when it ends. Having negative emotions about snipers will ONLY affect you and not the sniper.;)
Originally posted by Tullman
I prefer to call people that don't bid until there are seconds left in the auction sleezebags not snipers. If you want an item you must protect your bid at the end. Bid with 5 seconds left to prevent the sleezebag from getting the item for a mere .50 over you.
If I am not missing something, it appears that you are recommending sniping as a way to beat the snipers!
The way I see it is, if the auction ends at a time convenient for you to be sitiing at your computer, you should feel free to "snipe". This way you stand a reasonable chance of getting the item cheaper than you would if you place your bid with plenty of time to spare. A rival bidder may place a bid of a ceratain amount, but on seeing your higher bid come in at some later point may reconsider his/her position and decide that he/she is actually willing to pay a little more than they thought was sensible initially (we've all that done have't we ;) ). By sniping you don't give your rival a chance to reconsider the maximum they were willing to pay.
Of course, most sought after items have a whole load of snipers just seeing how late they dare to wait before bidding (unless they use sniping software/services in which case it is set in advance) and I usually find myself out-bid even if I place a winning bid with seconds to spare!
I agree with Dob here, the highest bidder wins the auction - if you weren't the highest bidder why should you be angry that you didn't win the item? The time a bid is placed has no bearing on whether an auction is won fairly or not.
Originally posted by Malc S
...if you weren't the highest bidder why should you be angry that you didn't win the item?
Once I was high bidder for a guitar (sniped it, of course), and the next highest bidder emailed me a couple of days later, asking if I was interested in selling him the guitar, as he "really wanted it"!
Logic would dictate that if I was interested in selling it to him, I would be asking AT LEAST my winning bid as the selling price. If so, why didn't he bid higher in the first place? I didn't ask him that, as I had no interest in selling, but I was curious!
He didn't sound angry, though...
Strabo
05-12-2002, 04:12 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Malc S
Of course, most sought after items have a whole load of snipers just seeing how late they dare to wait before bidding (unless they use sniping software/services in which case it is set in advance) and I usually find myself out-bid even if I place a winning bid with seconds to spare!
Part of the fun is snipping the sniper. In the last auction that I was going for there turned out to be three of us snipping in the last few seconds. Luckily I pulled it out by $0.05. I alway set a price ceiling on what I'm bidding for and then add a nickle or two. In this case my price was the same as someone elses except for the extra nickle.
This doesn't work when placing a bid and praying that it holds because when other bidders get close to your bid, the bid price will show your little bump. Hence, giving away your max bid.
It has also been my experience that bidding early on in the auction causes me to basically bid against myself. Meaning that my bid has caused someone else to bid, then I need to bid even higher if I really want that item. I'd much rather have the timer cut me out of an auction rather than the price. What can I say? I'm cheap.
__________________
Hey look, my first post!
Originally posted by Strabo
Part of the fun is snipping the sniper...this doesn't work when placing a bid and praying that it holds because when other bidders get close to your bid, the bid price will show your little bump.
A lot of people find bidding to be "fun" and "entertaining" (whatever floats your boat), but I am strictly business. I decide on my "not a penny more" bid and snipe the item. If I lose, even by a nickel, I don't let it bother me at all. In fact, I have been outbid and then later (sometimes a LOT later) gotten the same item for less.
The reason I snipe is because snipeing makes it harder for certain Ebay shenanigans to develop, such as having your bid "walked up" (legal), or "shill bidding" (illegal). Once I decide on my "not a penny more" bid, there is no advantage to bidding early.
Welcome to the board, Strabo!
I generally don’t bid until the last 60-90 seconds of an auction. Sometimes it works sometimes not. I don’t think there is anything “sleazy” about this practice.
If I am not that bothered about an item and I think it won't be paticularly popular I'll put my bid in early and then just let nature take its course.
However, if the item is something I crave things are different. I'll certainly snipe unles the item ends too late in the night/early in the morning (I've been there, bleary eyed, at 4 AM before! I don't want to use vrane.com or whatever as you have to give them your eBay login details - am I just being paranoid?). This is where the enjoyment is to be had - sniping with people all over the world for that elusive item. The main thing is not to be upset if you don't win - unless you decide that you should/could have bid more after all.....
Dob explained the snipers raison d'etre perfectly - "there is no advantage to bidding early".
Happy sniping fellow sleazebags :D
reidc
05-12-2002, 04:42 PM
I completely understand what I understood last night, but forgot and had a brain fart. Between the late hour and some liquid refreshment(and some great tunes of course), I just saw the final bids, and the thought immediately crossed my mind How did he know to bid EXACTLY $.50 higher?
I didn't matter if the guy bid $10 dollars higher. Whatever the threshold was for adding either the $.50 or $1.00 to the highest bid- that's what was added when this guy put in his proxy bid.
All it took was the first post to realize where my thinking was.
As for "Sniping"- Do unto others BEFORE they do unto you! If you can get away with it on a dialup connection - all the better.
Chris
peterC
05-12-2002, 06:09 PM
I just watched a couple of snipers battle it out during the last 60 seconds of an MFSL Procol Harum auction. Price went from $53 to $77 (I think) in small increments during that time! Very interesting.
Tullman
05-13-2002, 04:46 AM
It is a sleazy practice plain and simple. In a regular auction a person is given one last chance to bid on an item.
People who snipe are probably the same people that run up the bid and stop when they see the max bid of the other bidder.
People who snipe are probably the same people that run up the bid and stop when they see the max bid of the other bidder.
This statement is based on what? Have you ever been to a live auction? The person who is willing to pay the most ends up with the horse. The main differences are these auctions are not timed and you generally know who your competition is. In an ebay auction the auction is timed and this allows for “sniping”. I would suggest that if you are losing auctions the ideal solution is to bid higher not insult those that have outbid you.
Tullman, give me a break! That's the system ebay has set up. Now, if they want to discourage sniping, all they have to do is extend the auction by, lets say, 10 min. every time a bid is placed within the last 5 min of the auction. That would give those who are "watching" the auction time to "think" about going for it. That would give you what you want. But, the way I see it, you usually HAVE A WEEK TO DO ALL YOUR THINKING. How long does it take to anaylze just how much something is worth to you? If you really want the lp, put in a $1000 bid. You're gonna get it then. Think about the item before the last seconds. Don't blame the sniper. You can snipe,too. During the last 30 sec., put in a high amount. This way the snipers will only bid you up but not win. I laugh at snipers on items I really want. You see, I put in a high bid way before the final seconds. It's the snipers that have no time to go back and rebid! They are the losers if they don't bid high enough.
reidc
05-13-2002, 08:51 AM
There used to be an auction service- (was it Yahoo Auctions?) that if there was any bidding activity within a pre-determined and announced time prior to auction close- the bidding would be extended.
I don't know if its still around, or even if it was Yahoo, it seemed to me that either it would discourage sniping
Chris
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