on choosing a rock song to end 'Fahrenheit 9/11' <SPOILER ALERT>

[Ere]

via Who expert Brian Cady:
From Michael Moore interview, Film Comment at:
http://filmlinc.com/fcm/online/fahr911interview.htm

Moore: At the end of the film Bush says "Fool me once, shame on...me. I won't get fooled again." Clearly that moment demands that we hear Roger Daltrey scream, "Won't get fooled again!" That's how I had it cut. Pete Townsend blocked it, would not allow the song to be used. Word came to us that he is not a fan of Michael Moore's and in fact supports the war and supports Tony Blair and doesn't want the song used in any way that would make Blair look bad. Harvey personally made an appeal to him to reconsider. And he wouldn't. At that point, we're about a week away from going to Cannes. So, I remembered while I was driving in Michigan "Rockin' in the Free World" came on the radio and I thought this would be a cool song to have in the movie. So we said, "Let's see how this works," and it worked perfectly. Called up Neil Young and he said, "Whatever you need. Absolutely. It's yours." Once we started playing it in the movie, we quickly forgot about The Who. In fact, after Cannes, we got a call from their manager who said they might be willing to reconsider. And I said, "No, uh uh. That's bad karma. This is Neil Young's moment." People leave the theaters, that's what I want them hearing. In fact I don't want them hearing a song that has the line, "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss." Because the new boss I sincerely hope won't be the same as the old boss. I don't want that song. It gave me a chance to have a line at the end too, cause you can't go right into "Rockin' in the Free World." So I get to say "For once I agree with Bush...we won't get fooled again."

-Brian in Atlanta
The Who This Month!
http://www.thewhothismonth.com


p.s. Not intended to start a political discussion, just a bit of interesting film trivia :shh:

[Kayaker]

Wow - first post I've seen on this movie (unless all the other ones were quickly deleted). I'd give it seven posts before it gets locked-up.
Thanks for posting this story - very interesting.

[mhvbear]

No politics here please.
All I am going to say was who ever did the music choices for this film did an excellent job with selection. The soundtract was very enjoyable and to hear Neil Young over the end credits on the excellent sound system at AMC Empire 25 - Screen 1 was very enjoyable.

[FredCamp]

No politics here please.
All I am going to say was who ever did the music choices for this film did an excellent job with selection. The soundtract was very enjoyable and to hear Neil Young over the end credits on the excellent sound system at AMC Empire 25 - Screen 1 was very enjoyable.


I agree. It's Neil Young's moment. Pity about Pete, though.

[daveman]

Wow - first post I've seen on this movie (unless all the other ones were quickly deleted).

Sounds Orwellian -- "threads? what other threads? there never WERE any other threads; this is the way it's always been" :laugh:

[dcooper]

Loved the movie and thought that "Rockin' in the Free World" was an excellent way to end it. And I agree with mhvbear that all the musical choices were very good and added a lot to the movie.

Pity about Townsend though...

[mhvbear]

IMHO, I don't think The Who would have worked. Neil Young seemed like such an excellent choice.

[RDK]

Wow - first post I've seen on this movie (unless all the other ones were quickly deleted). I'd give it seven posts before it gets locked-up.
Thanks for posting this story - very interesting.

Is everyone so trigger-shy that we can't we even have a non-political thread without someone *assuming* that it will become political in the future? Seriously, this seems like a self-fulfilling prophecy to me... :(

[RDK]

No politics here please.


Can we at least wait before politics *enters* the thread before warning others? We're all grownups here; statements like this seem so condescending to me...

[Bob Lovely]

Guys,

Don't worry, we are watching. Let's discuss the topic as the thread originator intended...

Thanks!

Bob :)

[Grant]

I want to see this movie if and when it makes it here.

You know, the last thing I think of is the musical soundtrack in a movie. The last movie I saw where I felt the music actually had a significant impact on the movie was "Monster".

[Ere]

I haven't seen the movie yet but find it refreshing that a director would take such a particular interest in the songs included in the soundtrack. Seems like most directors and producers use pop songs as fodder to draw in tickets, regardless of how well the song matches the story and sometimes even using the songs on the trailers only and not in the movie.

IAC, given Pete's willingness to sell his songs for all sorts of reasons, not to mention his oft-quoted reaction when Bush used WGFA in 2000, it's rather suprising he didn't approve its use for Moore's movie.

[Leppo]

Interesting - thanks for sharing, Ere. I felt that RITFW made for a perfect closing track. :thumbsup:

[GabeG]

I think Won't Get Fooled Again would have been wrong in the context of the film. Sure on the surface it seems like it would fit, but given that Bush states the line, it doesn't make sense - it sounds like it's sympathetic toward him.

[Sckott]

Agree. WGFA would have been great as a relation, but Pete chooses his way and Neil's song is best as people have said. If I were Pete, I would have possibly said "No" as well. WGFA's point has nothing to do with how that was focused on.

If there were NO music in this film, it would have still been very focused, poignant. Moore communicated very well, even without a note played.

[JonUrban]

I like the idea of an NY tune stuck in the heads of moviegoers! He used that to end many of the concerts on the last CSN&Y tour.

Hey Hey, My My...............................(anothe r classic)

:-jon

[sharedon]

Here's the response from Pete Townshend's website:

http://www.petetownshend.co.uk/diary/display.cfm?id=89&zone=diary

7 July 2004
Fahrenheit Moore or Less

Back to Diary Dates
Michael Moore has been making some claims – mentioning me by name - which I believe distort the truth.

He says – among other things – that I refused to allow him to use my song WON’T GET FOOLED AGAIN in his latest film, because I support the war, and that at the last minute I recanted, but he turned me down. I have never hidden the fact that at the beginning of the war in Iraq I was a supporter. But now, like millions of others, I am less sure we did the right thing.

When first approached I knew nothing about the content of his film FAHRENHEIT 911. My publisher informed me they had already refused the use of my song in principle because MIRAMAX the producers offered well below what the song normally commands for use in a movie. They asked me if I wanted to ask for more money, I told them no.

Nevertheless, as a result of my refusal to consider the use, Harvey Weinstein – a good friend of mine, and my manager Bill Curbishley – interceded personally, explained in more detail to Bill what the movie was about, and offered to raise the bid very substantially indeed. This brought the issue directly to me for the first time. Bill emailed me and told me how keen Harvey and Michael Moore were to use my song.

At this point I emailed Bill (and he may have passed the essence of what I said to Harvey Weinstein) that I had not really been convinced by BOWLING FOR COLUMBINE, and had been worried about its accuracy; it felt to me like a bullying film. Out of courtesy to Harvey I suggested that if he and Moore were determined to have me reconsider, I should at least get a chance to see a copy of the new film. I knew that with Cannes on the horizon, time was running short for them, and this might not be possible. I never received a copy of the film to view. At no time did I ask Moore or Miramax to reconsider anything. Once I had an idea what the film was about I was 90% certain my song was not right for them.

I believe that in the same email to my publisher and manager that contained this request to see the film I pointed out that WGFA is not an unconditionally anti-war song, or a song for or against revolution. It actually questions the heart of democracy: we vote heartily for leaders who we subsequently always seem to find wanting. (WGFA is a song sung by a fictional character from my 1971 script called LIFEHOUSE. The character is someone who is frightened by the slick way in which truth can be twisted by clever politicians and revolutionaries alike). I suggested in the email that they might use something by Neil Young, who I knew had written several songs of a more precise political nature, and is as accessible as I am. Moore himself takes credit for this idea, and I have no idea whether my suggestion reached him, but it was the right thing to do.

I have nothing against Michael Moore personally, and I know Roger Daltrey is a friend and fan of his, but I greatly resent being bullied and slurred by him in interviews just because he didn’t get what he wanted from me. It seems to me that this aspect of his nature is not unlike that of the powerful and wilful man at the centre of his new documentary. I wish him all the best with the movie, which I know is popular, and which I still haven’t seen. But he’ll have to work very, very hard to convince me that a man with a camera is going to change the world more effectively than a man with a guitar.

Pete

[GP]

This gets more interesting by the minute. You can hear Townshend's incisive humor in that last comment, but as usual, he is right.

I think Moore is a great documentary filmmaker. He's proven that. It's not always easy to figure out where his agendas are at, or what political stance he will take at any given moment, which is something Nader discussed today in an interview, but he does have a lot going on.

I believe Townshend--just because I always have--and I think Moore's comments were a result of some miscommunication somewhere along the line. Something tells me there were too many people involved in that conversation.

[beatlematt]

I agree with Pete. 100%.

[Sckott]

Yes, it was a miscomunication. Moore had short time, Townshend had more to say (and concider) before saying yes. Add to the fact, you're talking through 5 people at a time (or more) and you have a very simple communication gap.

Pete shouldn't take it personally (but it sounds as if he doesn't anyway) and in the end, both are better for not throwing caution to the wind.

[Leppo]

But he’ll have to work very, very hard to convince me that a man with a camera is going to change the world more effectively than a man with a guitar.
Pete, thanks for posting. You should hang out here more often. http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/images/smilies/guitarra.gif

[Dan C]

I haven't seen the movie yet but find it refreshing that a director would take such a particular interest in the songs included in the soundtrack. Seems like most directors and producers use pop songs as fodder to draw in tickets, regardless of how well the song matches the story and sometimes even using the songs on the trailers only and not in the movie.


The use of REM's "Shiny Happy People" was particularly inspired. :) Great film, I'm looking forward to seeing it again.

Dan C

[GP]

Although there's a certain twisted irony when an angry, axe-wielding mod calls a stocky, corpulent film director a bully, don't you think?

I don't think Michael Moore has ever smashed anything much larger than a cheeseburger, but you know you're in trouble if he comes at you with a camera. :)

[levi]

The use of REM's "Shiny Happy People" was particularly inspired. :) Great film, I'm looking forward to seeing it again.

Dan C

that one put me on the floor. :laugh:

[czeskleba]

I believe Townshend--just because I always have--and I think Moore's comments were a result of some miscommunication somewhere along the line. Something tells me there were too many people involved in that conversation.

Indeed. Given the fact they never spoke directly to each other, the most likely scenario is that Moore was misinformed about Townshend's position.