Chicago remasters

[Claus]

Rhino will release the first batch of Chicago's backkatalog mid of July. Like the Costello remasters... all are 2 CD sets with bonus tracks.

[Gary]

As the first few Chicago albums are two record sets, I presume that each 2 CD set would be one LP in its entirety? To explain myself: Chicago Transit Authority is 2 LPs. Will this be released on a 2 CD set?

On a previous thread, it was revealed that some early Chicago albums were recorded out of phase. Does anyone know if this can be corrected in the mastering (remastering) process? If so, WILL it be corrected?

Chicago is one of my favorite bands! Well - the first 7 or so albums, at least!

[peterC]

Originally posted by Gary
As the first few Chicago albums are two record sets, I presume that each 2 CD set would be one LP in its entirety? To explain myself: Chicago Transit Authority is 2 LPs. Will this be released on a 2 CD set?

On a previous thread, it was revealed that some early Chicago albums were recorded out of phase. Does anyone know if this can be corrected in the mastering (remastering) process? If so, WILL it be corrected?

Chicago is one of my favorite bands! Well - the first 7 or so albums, at least!

Yes they started overstaying their welcome after about album 7. Chicago 2 is the one which really needs some work soundwise. If they can get it right that's the one I'll be keen to pick up.

Didn't previous CD releases of the double albums fit them onto single CDs? They'll need plenty of bonus tracks if they're going to fill up 2 CDs!

[Wie Gehts?]

Here's more information pertaining to the upcoming Chicago remasters:

http://www.cnn.com/2002/SHOWBIZ/News/05/06/showbuzz/index.html#5

[Grant]

Well, at least now I can plan for them. I can't wait!

[Bob Lovely]

Originally posted by Grant
Well, at least now I can plan for them. I can't wait!

Grant,

Count me in! I hope that we hear sonic inprovements to the second album but as I recall reading in another thread that there maybe little hope for improvement because the second album was recorded "out of phase". If correct, I would think that would not be correctable through mastering.

I hope Bill Inglot does the remastering versus someone else at Rhino. I wonder if there will be any of the "single versions" as bonus tracks?

Bob

[reidc]

YESSSS!
One of the first bands I listened to way back when... started listening to them, Santana, B, S, &T, Creedence back in the early '70's, and Chicago II was one of my first. I always thought the ending to the single version of Make Me Smile #%&** compared to the LP ending. I used to be able to listen to this all day long. Loved it so much I got CTA, and then III, and then V, and then.... whatever.

You're right about fitting them on 1 CD. However- the first versions of CD's had the first LP versions on 2 CD's- which I thought was wicked rip-off! All for the pricely sum of $27 each back in the mid 80's. Once Columbia released III I think they smartened up and released that on a single CD. Much like MCA when they released TOMMY, and YELLOW BRICK ROAD on 2 CD's to mirror(?) the originals.

Glad they all smartened up eventually.

If Rhino plans to release them as 2 CD's each- as someone else mentioned- theres gotta be an awful lotta extra stuff.


Chris

[Gary]

Originally posted by Bob Lovely

I hope Bill Inglot does the remastering versus someone else at Rhino. I wonder if there will be any of the "single versions" as bonus tracks?


As someone has said that people from Rhino visit this board, they could be reading these very words. Actually I hope they joined up!!!

I wonder if we could request a certain mastering engineer to work on these. Of course my first shoice would be Steve Hoffman although it may break his heart to hear and master something out of phase. :(

Actually that would probably break anyone's heart! :(

If they have to have someone "in house" I wonder who would be available? :)

[Grant]

Steve already had a shot at Chicago. I understand that at the time DCC couldn't meet the requierments.

I assume Bill Inglot is doing the honors, and I hope those CDs have lots of bass, just the way I like to hear Chicago's sound.

[Bob Lovely]

Originally posted by Gary


As someone has said that people from Rhino visit this board, they could be reading these very words. Actually I hope they joined up!!!

I wonder if we could request a certain mastering engineer to work on these. Of course my first shoice would be Steve Hoffman although it may break his heart to hear and master something out of phase. :(

Actually that would probably break anyone's heart! :(

If they have to have someone "in house" I wonder who would be available? :)

Gary,

I hope they are listening and Inglot "personally" remasters all the titles! The Chicago remasters require the skill of an very experienced remastering hand. In our world we would obviously prefer Steve but I would like to see Rhino use their "best" with "no offense" meant to the other Engineering staff at Rhino!

Bob :)

[Grant]

I hope Inglot has TIME to read this forum! But, I would rather he put his time into his work, and have someone fill him in on the details!

[David R. Modny]

Originally posted by Grant

I assume Bill Inglot is doing the honors, and I hope those CDs have lots of bass, just the way I like to hear Chicago's sound.

Deep bass, Bill Inglot,...can those words actually be used together in the same sentence...yikes. O.K. that wasn't very nice on my part...lol! In all fairness, when I usually swipe at older Inglot product, it's probably actually Ken Perry, or perhaps the two in cahoots.

I have to say, as someone who owns his own fair share of Rhino product for musical reasons, can Bill and Ken really being hearing through their studio monitors what ends up on so much of their discs! It seems inconceivable to me. I was playing Turtle Wax (GH Vol. 2) yesterday and on top of of the sharp, sizzling top end...there doesn't appear to be much of anything below 80-100 hz or so.

(and please don't say this is what the original recordings sound like...they may not have fat bottoms, but they're at least listenable)

Do people actually find this sound enjoyable. Somebody, feel free, to tell me it's just me. :eek:

IMO, of course.

[Bob Lovely]

Originally posted by David R. Modny


Deep bass, Bill Inglot,...can those words actually be used together in the same sentence...yikes. O.K. that wasn't very nice on my part...lol! In all fairness, when I usually swipe at older Inglot product, it's probably actually Ken Perry, or perhaps the two in cahoots.

I have to say, as someone who owns his own fair share of Rhino product for musical reasons, can Bill and Ken really being hearing through their studio monitors what ends up on so much of their discs! It seems inconceivable to me. I was playing Turtle Wax (GH Vol. 2) yesterday and on top of of the sharp, sizzling top end...there doesn't appear to be much of anything below 80-100 hz or so.

(and please don't say this is what the original recordings sound like...they may not have fat bottoms, but they're at least listenable)

Do people actually find this sound enjoyable. Somebody, feel free, to tell me it's just me. :eek:

IMO, of course.

Dave,

As you know, Inglot has been very heavily discussed and debated here. I look at it this way--Rhino has the rights to remaster the Chicago catalog so why not put their "best" on the project.

Personally, I like and enjoy Inglot's remastering of material from about 1968 on (Three Dog Night comp as an example, the Little River Band comp as another example). For some reason, to my ears, when he has remastered material recorded earlier than 68' he loses me when compared to his remastering of material recorded post 67'. Exceptions would be the Hitsville USA box where he used tube equipment--it sounds great and the Four Seasons remasters on Ace in the UK. My favorite remastering Engineer of recordings from the 50's and 60's is Steve Hoffman because of his insistence in using vintage equipment wherever possible that was indigenous to the recording or period of the recording being remastered. Looking at my collection, the 60's recordings Rhino CDs mastered in the mid 80's (mastered by Bill and Dan) do not sound very good, either. I have the same complaints as you on those discs. I was not that happy with 60's Soul Box and the Nuggets box mastered by Bill--not enough low-end and the highs are too shrill...like tinny sounding 45s...I was largely disappointed in those efforts.

Bob

[Grant]

Originally posted by David R. Modny


Deep bass, Bill Inglot,...can those words actually be used together in the same sentence...yikes. O.K. that wasn't very nice on my part...lol! In all fairness, when I usually swipe at older Inglot product, it's probably actually Ken Perry, or perhaps the two in cahoots.

I guess you don't have Sister Sledge's "We Are Family" CD remastered by Bill Inglot. Deep, beautiful bottom, just the way Bernard Edwards and Nile Rodgers produced it and Bob Clearmountain engineered it.

BTW, older Rhino product was produced before the current high-bit technology.

[Grant]

Originally posted by Bob Lovely

I was not that happy with 60's Soul Box and the Nuggets box mastered by Bill--not enough low-end and the highs are too shrill...like tinny sounding 45s...I was largely disappointed in those efforts.

Bob
If you recall Bill Inglot's comment on the sound of that Beg, Scream & Shout Box (assuming this the one to which you are referring), he states that every attempt was to use the original mono tapes. But, in the end, especially with 60s soul music, it isn't the sound that matters as much as the music itself.

I suppose he added that in the booklet because he knew people were going to complain about the sound and MONO. I guess he wanted to keep the audiophiles at bay.

[Bob Lovely]

Originally posted by Grant

If you recall Bill Inglot's comment on the sound of that Beg, Scream & Shout Box (assuming this the one to which you are referring), he states that every attempt was to use the original mono tapes. But, in the end, especially with 60s soul music, it isn't the sound that matters as much as the music itself.

I suppose he added that in the booklet because he knew people were going to complain about the sound and MONO. I guess he wanted to keep the audiophiles at bay.

Grant,

Yes, I recall the notes very well!

I love the music in that box and I enjoy the many Mono mixes very much. I have a lot of those tracks on the original 45's that in some cases sound much better than Bill's remastering from the Mono mix master tapes. Not one of his better efforts, in my opinion. The Nuggets box was even worse, however. Certainly, I respect and appreciate the effort he put into them, however.

Generally, I enjoy his remastering work but these were just exceptions for me!

Bob

[David R. Modny]

Originally posted by Grant


BTW, older Rhino product was produced before the current high-bit technology.

As were countless great sounding CD's.! What does "hi-bit" technology have to do with the fact that on a particular disc..the bass is filtered away and the top end is tipped up so much that it's painful (not to mention hiss levels being exaggerated like there's no tomorrow).

I obviously don't own every disc that was ever mastered by Inglot/Perry (Sister Sledge included), but I own enough to know that their mastering tastes and mine generally don't jive (e.g. Turtles, Zombies, Spoonful, Badfinger, Grassroots, and countless others).

[Michael]

One of my favorite songs of the 70's "Oh Babe What Would You Say"? by Norman Hurricane (Beatle Engineer) Smith was released on The Rhino" Have A Nice Day "Series. What I remembered most about that song was the GREAT BASS response of my original LP. Well It was completely dried up on the Rhino release. A few years later Capital Released the "50th Anniversary" Series and low and behold it was on there with all the GLORIOUS BASS restored in full bloom.

[Grant]

Originally posted by Michael
One of my favorite songs of the 70's "Oh Babe What Would You Say"? by Norman Hurricane (Beatle Engineer) Smith was released on The Rhino" Have A Nice Day "Series. What I remembered most about that song was the GREAT BASS response of my original LP. Well It was completely dried up on the Rhino release. A few years later Capital Released the "50th Anniversary" Series and low and behold it was on there with all the GLORIOUS BASS restored in full bloom.
IT could be different tapes. I happen to have a Capitol CD "When AM Was King" that sounds like the same tape Inglot used. All Inglot did was add a bit of compression.

Your experience proves nothing. What this says to me is that Inglot is using some funky tapes. He doesn't always have access to good tapes, you know.

[Michael]

Originally posted by Grant

IT could be different tapes. I happen to have a Capitol CD "When AM Was King" that sounds like the same tape Inglot used. All Inglot did was add a bit of compression.

Your experience proves nothing. What this says to me is that Inglot is using some funky tapes. He doesn't always have access to good tapes, you know.

LOL! Still More Bass. Closer to the original LP. That's good enough for me.

[lukpac]

Originally posted by Grant
But, in the end, especially with 60s soul music, it isn't the sound that matters as much as the music itself.

Is this coming from the same Grant that said there were huge differences between the mono and stereo mixes of Respect?

[lukpac]

Originally posted by Bob Lovely
I look at it this way--Rhino has the rights to remaster the Chicago catalog so why not put their "best" on the project.

And how is Inglot the "best"?

As a FWIW, I *believe* Inglot doesn't even touch the board - somebody else mans the controls and Inglot "guides" them along...

[Bob Lovely]

Originally posted by lukpac


And how is Inglot the "best"?

As a FWIW, I *believe* Inglot doesn't even touch the board - somebody else mans the controls and Inglot "guides" them along...

Luke,

In my opinion based on listening to many, many Rhino CDs, Inglot is the best they have! That not withstanding, I am not a huge fan of "Rhinophonic" sound because, although it nevers sounds awful, it never blows you away with Hoffman-like quality either. I assume you make your comment because of the number of Rhino CDs were it lists "Sound Produced by Bill Inglot" and another remastering engineer is also listed in the remastering credits?

Bob

[lukpac]

Originally posted by Bob Lovely
I assume you make your comment because of the number of Rhino CDs were it lists "Sound Produced by Bill Inglot" and another remastering engineer is also listed in the remastering credits?

That's not *why* I made my comment, no...

[Bob Lovely]

Originally posted by lukpac


That's not *why* I made my comment, no...

Luke,

Well...lets share our knowledge Luke! No need to be coy!

Bob :)