Columbia stampers

[stereo71]

I could use some help decrypting the numbers
in the dead wax of two copies of BS&T. I have
an original issue (bought 1-70) red label 2-eye
with these numbers:

side 1 "XSM137878-1AE" (die-stamped) with "C3"
halfway around (scratched)

side 2 "XSM137879-1AA" followed by "D3"

Then, on another copy I found lately in a used
bin, orangey label with gold Columbia-eye-etc. in
continuous ring (later issue):

side 1 "XSM137878-1CJ" "G3"
side 2 "XSM137879-1BF" "E4"

The "XSM137878" part is obviously the album side
number. So what do we call the rest of this, and
how might it relate to mothers and stampers, etc.?

Sonically, the older 2-eye pressing takes the cake.
Especially on side 1, where everything just seems
more present, bass is more extended, etc. In
comparison the newer record sounds thin. There
does not seem to be so much difference between
the side 2s.

Just curious, I guess, how Columbia coded their
production runs.

[-Ben]

Good question.
I wish someone could help, because I would like to know too.
BC

[mcow1]

Not to sound uninformed, but could someone explain the "eye" thing
Thanks

[Gary]

That probably varies by record company - I'd bet they are all different. We may never know.... :(

[-Ben]

mcow1,
Briefly...the Columbia logo of the 50s and 60s looked like an "eye".
The amount of logos (eyes) depicted on the LP label changed from time to time. This fact can help you approximately the age of the pressing.
BC

[stereo71]

Sorry guys--sometimes I assume too much in describing
these things.

From my limited experience with Columbia label
formats:

Early 60s, maybe late 50s ? were red label with
"Columbia" in white across the top, and 6 "eyes",
three on each side. Sometimes with the "Lp" logo
at the bottom of the label.

Mid 60s, "2-eye" style is still red label, but the
"Columbia" at top is plain block letter type, and
there is only a single "eye" on each side. This
is the more stylistic eye with concentric circles
for the "head". Also, this type sometimes has the
"360 Sound" with arrows at the bottom, usually for
the stereo version.

Later 60s, early 70s began the red-orange label
with gold "Columbia-eye-Columbia-eye-Columbia" etc.
in a ring around the outter edge.

Okay, now that I have you all snoring from this trivia,
all these types have record side/tape numbers die
stamped, rather than hand-written or engraved, into
the dead wax. The only scratched numbers are 180
degrees around from the stamped ones, usually very
faint, e.g. "C3" or "D2", etc. I was wondering if these
represent the stamper generations from the mother,
or maybe just individual machines used in the pressing
run? Pure guessing on my part.

Any correlation between sound quality and what these
numbers and variants mean is the point, I suppose, but
there are undoubtably many more variables involved, like
the vinyl, temperature of the press, etc.

Oh well, I guess I should be listening to music instead,
right?

[lukpac]

The only thing I "know" is 1A is a first pressing. Now, what I've heard suggests that there were actually multiple first pressings, so... Of course, those numbers get *really* confusing - 1B, 2A, etc... At one time I thought perhaps one side was 1A and the other 1B (or 1A and 2A), but I've seen pressings that are 1A on both sides, so go figure... I just picked up a 1A PSR&T, as a matter of fact...

[RDK]

As a general rule of thumb - whether it's right or wrong ;) - i just look for the lower number and letter. "A" is better than "B" (or "H") and "1" is better than "2" (or "18"). Dunno if this works, but it sounds good and is easy to remember...

Ray

[-Ben]

I "believe" the approximate label date changes for Columbia LPs are:

"6 eye" to "360 sound": early 1963
"360 sound" to "red orange": fall 1970

Example:
Bob Dylan's first album was released in late 1962 with the "6 eye" label,
Bob's second album Freewheelin' released in May 1963 only in "360 sound"

Bob Dylan's Self Portrait was released mid 1970 in the "360 sound" label,
Bob's next album New Morning released late 1970 exists only in "red-orange"

BC

[lukpac]

Originally posted by RDK
As a general rule of thumb - whether it's right or wrong ;) - i just look for the lower number and letter. "A" is better than "B" (or "H") and "1" is better than "2" (or "18"). Dunno if this works, but it sounds good and is easy to remember...

Well, the question is, is a 2A better than a 1B? Etc...

[-Ben]

Lukpac nailed the question right on.

By the way....one of the best things Mikey Framer has ever done was to publish in Stereophile (maybe a year ago?) how to decript UK (Parlophone/Apple) 60's Beatles LPs.
BC

[Scott Wheeler]

The letter at some mastering labs actually designated the person who cut that particular master. The number was just a running count of the masters cut for that particular side. So the rumor goes

[Mike V]

This is my theory. I may have even heard this somewhere else:

The numeral represents the mother.
The letter represents the stamper from that particular mother.

A 1/A 1/A pressing would be a very early press. 1/B would be the next, so forth.

This doesn't necessarily have an impact on sound quality. You'd have to a/b compare them yourself. In my opinion, the earlier ones are far and away the best in most cases.

Any other theories?

[Shoes4Industry]

Here's a good website on labels with a lot of pictures. He does one on Columbia Masterworks, which is Classical, but the labels are similar and the dates used to the std Columbia Pop labels (6 eye, 2 eye, etc). He also does Blue Note and others...worth checking out.
'

http://www.ronpenndorf.com/contents.html

[stereo71]

Great page for classical label info, especially
for historical notes. Decca recording technology
derived from WWII sonar?! Fascinating stuff...