10cc Rubber Bullets Mystery Solved

[audiodrome]

I remember there were a couple of posts a while back concerning the end of "Rubber Bullets" where the "synthesized" bullets ricochet back and forth and people were wondering why they cut this part off on the CD version. It wasn't cut off - it's at the beginning of "The Hospital Song". Somewhere along the way somebody changed the track order of the first album. I checked out the CD and at the end of "Rubber Bullets" where it cuts off, I thought to myself, "Wait a minute - this is supposed to go into "The Hospital Song" so I dug out my old LP, and sure enough there lies the problem. The original line-up was:

SIDE A
1. Johnny Don't Do It
2. Sand In My Face
3. Donna
4. The Dean And I
5. Headline Hustler

SIDE B
1. Speed Kills
2. Rubber Bullets
3. The Hospital Song
4. Ships Don't Disappear In The Night
5. Fresh Air For My Momma

The DCC CD puts Rubber Bullets first (maybe because it was "the hit" off the LP) and then follows the order from there, which ruins the segue from Rubber Bullets to The Hospital Song but at least keeps the rest of the flow. To make matters even worse, the Castle and subsequent Snapper CDs totally rearranged the order for no apparent reason except maybe to put both of the singles at the beginning of the CD:

1. Rubber Bullets
2. Donna
3. Jonny Don't Do It
4. Sand In My Face
5. Speed Kills
6. The Dean And I
7. Ships Don't Disappear In The Night
8. The Hospital Song
9. Fresh Air For My Momma
10. Headline Hustler

This really screws with the line-up because not only do you lose the Rubber Bullets/Hospital Song segue, but you lose Fresh Air For My Momma as the great album closer.

Does anyone have any idea why they would have done this? I really can't think of any other examples of this kind of tampering and I'm even more embarassed that it took me this long to notice it, 10cc being one of my favorite groups. Thank God they left Sheet Music as is!

[mcow1]

Originally posted by audiodrome
I remember there were a couple of posts a while back concerning the end of "Rubber Bullets" where the "synthesized" bullets ricochet back and forth and people were wondering why they cut this part off on the CD version. It wasn't cut off - it's at the beginning of "The Hospital Song".

I'll be damned, whupped out the old DCC cd and there is the ricochet right at the beginning of Hospital Song. Too bad the order was changed. Thanks audiodrome.

[John Oteri]

There were two printings of the DCC "10CC" Two-Fer. The second fixed the incorrect order (that came from the master tape being respliced incorrectly).

I've never been able to find the correct second press though. I bet they didn't make too many of them.

[Dave]

Checked my pressing as well and sure enough it's the same as all of yours.:rolleyes:

[peterC]

This is all very strange!

As I mentioned in another thread a few weeks back I have the first 2 albums on one CD minus the bonus track on a local (australian) very cheap'n'nasty looking release. There are no credits in the notes but the sound is extraordinary and I have always assumed this is the Steve version. It's not the castle version.
Steve mentioned that he wouldn't be surprised if it was because it was licensed all over the place.

The strange thing is on my CD the track orders of both Sheet Music and 10CC are as per the original LPs except that the albums are reversed (Sheet Music is first).

[audiodrome]

Can anyone think why they would change the order so drastically on the Castle and especially the Snapper CD, which is supposed to be the most definitive/up to date reissue of that album. My only guess is to put the two singles on first, but they weren't even very big hits so who knows.

[peterC]

Originally posted by audiodrome
Can anyone think why they would change the order so drastically on the Castle and especially the Snapper CD, which is supposed to be the most definitive/up to date reissue of that album. My only guess is to put the two singles on first, but they weren't even very big hits so who knows.

The Castle CD has the correct LP track orders. Only the albums are chronologically reversed.

[Patrick M]

Originally posted by John Oteri
There were two printings of the DCC "10CC" Two-Fer. The second fixed the incorrect order (that came from the master tape being respliced incorrectly).

I didn't think the master tape was used for the DCC release.

[Evan]

Originally posted by audiodrome
I remember there were a couple of posts a while back concerning the end of "Rubber Bullets" where the "synthesized" bullets ricochet back and forth and people were wondering why they cut this part off on the CD version. It wasn't cut off - it's at the beginning of "The Hospital Song".




So that’s what those funny noises are at the beginning of the “Hospital Song”! I couldn’t figure what it had to do with the song. Now, via the magic of CDR, it all makes sense. When I edited the "synthesized" ricocheting bullets to the end of “Rubber Bullets”, the song clocks in at 5:20. Is that about how long it should be?
:D

[audiodrome]

Originally posted by peter castanos


The Castle CD has the correct LP track orders. Only the albums are chronologically reversed.

The Castle CD does not have the correct running order for the first LP.

This is the Castle CD track order:

1. Rubber Bullets
2. Donna
3. Jonny Don't Do It
4. Sand In My Face
5. Speed Kills
6. The Dean And I
7. Ships Don't Disappear In The Night
8. The Hospital Song
9. Fresh Air For My Momma
10. Headline Hustler

This is the original LP track order:

1. Johnny Don't Do It
2. Sand In My Face
3. Donna
4. The Dean And I
5. Headline Hustlers
6. Speed Kills
7. Rubber Bullets
8. The Hospital Song
9. Ships Don't Disappear
10. Fresh Air For My Momma

Unless there are different versions of the Castles CD that I don't know about. Also if you watch the groove on the LP at the end of "Rubber Bullets". the ricocheting bullets are actually part of "The Hospital Song" as on the CD.

[audiodrome]

Peter

Unless you are thinking of Castle's 10cc: The Collection CD from the late '80's which has the first and second LP on one CD. I used to have this but traded it in when I got the DCC disc. I can't remember the running order for that. I was talking about the Castle CD with just the first album alone which came out sometime in the mid '90's.

Paul

[peterC]

Originally posted by audiodrome




Also if you watch the groove on the LP at the end of "Rubber Bullets". the ricocheting bullets are actually part of "The Hospital Song" as on the CD.


And who said audiophiles are a little weird!! Try doing that on a CD!

The version I have as I explained on a different thread is made in Australia, is on Possum Records, dated 1989, uses the cover from the LP 100CC Greatest Hits of 10CC, says "all tracks Castle" and "this compilation Jonathan King Enterprises", sounds absolutely brilliant and has the exact LP running orders with albums reversed.

I believe I have a licenced version of the Steve version.

What was the sound quality of The Collection like? If it was just average then I must have a Steve version. Not bad for $2.99!

[audiodrome]

Peter

The 10cc Collection CD sounds identical to the single LP Castle CDs with a slight volume difference. I personally think the new Snapper CDs sound excellent, and would be the definitive versions except for the messed up track order on the first one. I just burned myself a new copy today with the correct running order and the Rubber/Hospital segue intact. Now, that's the way I remember it...It's amazing how weird you can get when you go off on stupid tangents like this, but then again all of us die-hard 10cc fans have got to be a little weird to begin with.

Paul

[peterC]

Out of interest Paul where did your allegiances go following the split.

Mine definitely went with Godley/Creme who of course went on to make several almost brilliant albums, my favourite being "L", which was ignored at the time and only got a CD release about a year ago.

I only stuck with Gouldman/Stewart for one more album, Deceptive Bends. That was more than enough!

[audiodrome]

Peter

At the time of the split up in 1976, 10cc was my favorite band so I had a hard time going with one or the other. I truly enjoyed C&G's experimental evolution all the way up to Goodbye Blue Sky (I still don't really know what to make of this record), but I also loved Stewart/Gouldman's pop sensibilities and impeccable recording techniques. I bought all of the 10cc LPs up through Windows In The Jungle, but I must admit that they got worse as the albums went on, culminating in that absolutely horrible "Meanwhile" CD, which I bought solely out of fan loyalty. On the other hand C&G's LPs seemed to change direction everytime a new one came out and I found all of their albums very interesting, even today, whereas the 10cc albums, starting around Bloody Tourists sound particularly sappy today, although I still have a nostalgic spot in my collection for all of them. I recently saw the "Windows In The Jungle" CD go for $185 on ebay - YIKES. I stopped my bidding at $30 because I just wanted to complete my collection (but not that badly). Now if I could only find "Ismism" and "Birds Of Prey" on CD... By the way, what do you think of the new One Way CDs of "Consequnces", "L", and "Freeze Frame"? I compared them (except for "L") with my original European pressings and I thought that the new ones sounded very harsh compared to the old Mercury CDs, which are a lot warmer to my ears. To this day, I think 10cc were one of the most original, innovative and experimental bands of the '70's with incredible recording and production techniques that many bands today can't hold a candle to. I also think that the current UK Mercury remasters sound really good and were a drastic improvement over the previous US and UK versions. You can finally hear all the subtleties of the original recordings in full detail, especially on tracks like "Brand New Day" and "Don't Hang Up".

[peterC]

I was lucky enough to find a japanese Ismism years ago. Great album. Maybe better than L.

I've got the L/Freeze Frame twofer on One Way. I agree the sound is nothing great. Haven't got Consequences yet. I'm tossing up whether or not to buy it. I've got the 3 LP set. There was an album out years ago called "The Music From Consequences". I'd certainly buy that if it came out on CD.

The Mercury 10cc remasters have been criticised on this forum. Ive got the UK Original Sountrack remaster, BUT yesterday I received from Humorem the unreleased DCC version. I've only had a quick listen but it sounds pretty amazing to me. Paul, I think you will NEED this one!

Peter

[audiodrome]

Where would I find this Humorem CD? I'm very interested...

[peterC]

Originally posted by audiodrome
Where would I find this Humorem CD? I'm very interested...

On ebay. I've sent you a private message.