Sinatra- Watertown

[NealW]

picked up this LP on the insistance of my local record dealer and wow very impressive and it seems rather obscure.

first of all the songs are in terms of a narrative (wife leaves man for the big city) and have a dark anguished feel to them. this is music to really listen to... and of course the sound is superb and the previous owner seems to have not played it as the vinyl seems almost untouched.

i'm sure fans of sinatra know more about it. i had only owned "come dance with me" and "songs for swinging lovers" previously so i find this album a real eye opener.

[pdenny]

Neal, I'm thrilled to be the first to reply to your discovery! I've adored WATERTOWN for years. It was not only the worst-selling LP in Sinatra's Reprise catalog, it was the last to see light of day on CD. You're right that it's a true concept album; it has a real story (and an ultimately very sad one).

The album's songs were written by Jake Holmes and Bob Gaudio (from the Four Seasons). It was originally intended to be the soundtrack for a TV special that was never filmed. And although (against his usual MO) Frank dubbed his voice over the pre-recorded instrumental tracks, I think it's some his richest and most heartfelt singing ever. A true lost classic that was buried in the frenzy of "My Way" airplay. Closest he ever got to a "rock" album; some great guitar and drum sounds in there. "Michael and Peter", "What's Now Is Now", "I Would be In Love" and "What a Funny Girl You Used To Be" are classic Sinatra performances. Of course, the damn CD's already out of print. I'd love to see Steve tackle this one....;-)

Originally posted by NealW
picked up this LP on the insistance of my local record dealer and wow very impressive and it seems rather obscure.

first of all the songs are in terms of a narrative (wife leaves man for the big city) and have a dark anguished feel to them. this is music to really listen to... and of course the sound is superb and the previous owner seems to have not played it as the vinyl seems almost untouched.

i'm sure fans of sinatra know more about it. i had only owned "come dance with me" and "songs for swinging lovers" previously so i find this album a real eye opener.

[Dave]

Hey guys,

The cd isn't out of print up here.;) the link is www.absound.ca

[MMM]

Hello all,

I was lucky enough to find an original W7 label, WLP of Watertown - 1A cutting on both sides, Columbia mastered and pressed. I also have a sealed 8-track!!!

Just in case the CD doesn't credit this (I only have this material in digital form on the 20-CD box), this album was recorded in New York's Columbia Studios (not sure which one) by Frank Laico (Tony Bennett, Miles Davis, etc.).

What's interesting is that supposedly Frank Laico did a mix of this, but it was never used. Hopefully if Frank did do a mix of this album the tape still exists - I think it would be interesting to hear. I've read that Bob Gaudio had quite a different mix made for the released version.

Also, compared to the Watertown tracks on the 20-CD box, my LP sounds better. It sounds more natural to me.

MMM


P.S. Supposedly the LP's were issued with a poster. Mine doesn't have it.

[NealW]

i will look at my copy tonight, it is reprise with a picture of frank on the label (never seen that before). offhand i can't remember if it is a UK or US pressing but it is beautiful heavy vinyl with not a tick or pop in sight

[ArneW]

We had a "Watertown" thread on the first DCC forum. If I remember correctly, Steve said that the somewhat dull sound was the "trademark" of a particular engineer at Western. He also explained that the compression, bad EQ, and bad echo used by this very engineer is sometimes right on the multitracks and thus cannot be reverted. I don't remember if this is the case with "Watertown" (perhaps Steve could chime in here?). I did notice that the CD's bonus track, a previously unreleased (=newly remixed?) version of "Lady Day" (recorded during the "Watertown" sessions) is a lot cleaner though - but it still has some of that "bottom of a dried well" sound.

Here's some information on "Watertown" (excerpts from interviews with "Watertown" composer Bob Gaudio and lyricist Jake Holmes):

http://members.aol.com/artanis103/watertown-int.html

Arne

[Geoman076]

A fellow forum member was raving about this album at the first annual cookout, and actually sent me a copy soon afterwards. I can honestly say, that up until last week, I have NEVER seriously listened to Frank Sinatra. When I thought of Frank, I thought of the SNL skits where Phil Hartman does his great parodies, and that's about all.

I popped it into the car cd player, and after about 10 seconds, popped it back out. It was daylight with the sun very bright, and you could tell by the opening notes that this album was screaming to be listened to at night. So I waited.....

Then, the perfect opportunity arose. I had an appointment at night witha round trip time of about 50 minutes....perfect! I popped it back in and I was immediately drawn into it. The songs of loneliness, love lost, and sadness are perfectly suited to Frank's voice. Even though the album is a bit dark, and by the liner notes a departure from Frank's normal "positive" style at the time, there is an underlying current of hope that is present also. Needless to say, it's been in the car for the past week. I don't listen to it in the daytime, but when the sun goes down, Frank gets turned up.

Thanks Shawn! :righton:

[TommyTunes]

When the album was released, it met with hostility from the Sinatra fans, however it has in the last 10 years or so gained much stature. Definitely a dark sounding album. The original pressings came with a cool Frank poster.

[teaser5]

You can even get a yourself a stunning! (http://cgi.ebay.com/FRANK-SINATRA-WATERTOWN-1970-STEREO-MINT-STUNNING_W0QQitemZ4770788797QQcategoryZ1 598QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem ) copy.
Enjoy Geo!
Best-
Norm

[daveman]

It is an amazing album, supposedly his first foray into "pop" music. At any rate, I love it and play it often. A truly overlooked gem.

[Larry Geller]

MUCH better than his other "experimental" phase--Trilogy!

[pdenny]

We had a thread on this great album a while back:

http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=3171&highlight=watertown

I adore WATERTOWN. The CD sounds kinda dull, but the music and the story are first-rate. The unexpected ending always gets me when I hear "The Train."

[rob68]

Love it! Love the unsentimental coldness! But it's the only Frank I own...so far. I bought it for the Jake Holmes connection...Jake wrote the story (lyrics). If you like this, you might like Jake's Above Ground Sound and/or Letter To Katherine December CDs.....be warned tho, they're transferred from vinyl.

[bartels76]

I'm so glad you liked this CD George. I have been turned on by so many artists and albums by this forum. I'm glad to be able to do the same for you.

[Uncle Al]

Jeez - one of the things I learned on this forum was an appreciation of Frank Sinatra. He was NOT JUST A "FOR HIRE" SINGER WITH STYLE. He knew what he wanted and went for it. He chose his musicians, arrangers and conductors with mucho thought. He made "concept" albums in the 50's (sad songs, happy songs, swinging songs). Is it any surprise that he made concept albums in the 70's? 80's?

He was an original - and maybe the first "rock star" (even though he would cringe at the thought). Yeah - I said that. Just a little testimony to my previous post (in the RAR Hall of Fame thread) about my broad definition of the genre. Maybe it isn't the MUSIC - but the attitude was there.

[Chris C]

Frank Sinatra "Watertown"...Finally some people are hearing it!

This is certainly not my favorite Sinatra album, but it is unique all the same as it is connected to my all-time favorite album The 4 Seasons "Genuine Imitation Life Gazette" (which I push, here on the Hoffman Forum, "ANY" chance I get, and here comes one!)...

Way back in 1969 Frank Sinatra somehow got a hold of a copy of The 4 Seasons "Genuine Imitation Life Gazette" album and fell in love with it. (Note: John Lennon once claimed that this album was one of his favorites too!) The "Gazette" album, IMO, is a very dark and even somewhat depressing affair, that is sadly beautiful, "IF" you listen to it the way I'm sure that Frank, John and myself have. It's almost like listening to Frank's "Only The Lonely" album, but with a "groovy" late '60's feel to it! The "Gazette" album was co-wrote by Bob Gaudio (4 Seasons member & founder) and Jake Holmes (now a jingle writer in N.Y.) Frank Sinatra hooked up with them to write his "Watertown" album. (Note: There is a reference to "Watertown" on the song "Mrs. Statley's Garden" on the "Gazette" album, meaning to me, that many of the songs on Frank's album, were meant to continue the "Gazette" story or theme.)

If you have a long dark ride or a room at home, at night, with a good sound system, I highly recommend that you give the "Genuine Imitation Life Gazette" a spin, you might just appreciate it, like I do!

Chris C

[pdenny]

If you have a long dark ride or a room at home, at night, with a good sound system, I highly recommend that you give the "Genuine Imitation Life Gazette" a spin, you might just appreciate it, like I do!

Good luck if you don't already have a copy!

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00004UZXG/ref=nosim/watson-20/103-6720808-5171833?dev-t=D1ZRLX383JKDT6

I love GIL as much as you do. The Four Seasons' SGT. PEPPER. Like nothing you've ever heard...highly recommended.

[Chris C]

Good luck if you don't already have a copy!

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00004UZXG/ref=nosim/watson-20/103-6720808-5171833?dev-t=D1ZRLX383JKDT6

I love GIL as much as you do. The Four Seasons' SGT. PEPPER. Like nothing you've ever heard...highly recommended.

Glad that you also enjoy "Genuine Imitation Life Gazette"! It really is The 4 Seasons "Sgt. Pepper", but much darker in tone. I'd say it's more like Brian Wilson's "Pet Sounds", where "most" of the music is bright like sunshine, while the lyrics seem depressed and gloomy. "Gazette" does seem to have become hard to find, as of late, but be it that I'm a fan, I have the following as backups...

3 copies of the Original Phillips album (One still sealed and one autographed by Frankie Valli)
Original Phillips Reel to Reel
Original Phillips 8-track
Original Phillips Jukebox EP
Both 45rpm releases from "Gazette"
Rhino reissue cassette
(3) copys of Rhino reissue CD (One still sealed in the long box!)

I think that I'm good with "Gazette" :D

Chris C

[stereoldies]

This isn't my favorite Sinatra album, but I also agree that it is very good.

[Joe Koz]

I must be living under a rock. I have my share of Frank Sinatra on vinyl and CD. For the life of me, I've never heard of this album! :help:

[Joe Koz]

3 copies of the Original Phillips album (One still sealed and one autographed by Frankie Valli)
Original Phillips Reel to Reel
Original Phillips 8-track
Original Phillips Jukebox EP
Both 45rpm releases from "Gazette"
Rhino reissue cassette
(3) copys of Rhino reissue CD (One still sealed in the long box!)

I think that I'm good with "Gazette" :D

Chris C
You're never covered with enough copies of a classic record! :D

[Prog Boy]

Hey anyone out there also a big fan of Sinatra's Watertown album ? Picked this up a while back finally (on Rush drummer Neal Peart's recommendation from his book!) and think this is a fine album......mix seems a bit muddled and bassey but enjoyable none the less....

[daveman]

This album has a pretty strong following here on the forum. I learned about it here and love it as well. Very moving album.

[RicP]

Outstanding and very underrated album :thumbsup:

Very interesting connections as well between that album and the Four Seasons LP Genuine Imitation Life Gazette. Very cool to listen to them back to back. :)

[pdenny]

We've discussed WATERTOWN here a few times before. A wonderful, strange and singularly unique album in the Sinatra canon. A true concept album with an unexpected ending.