Japanese Abbey Road CP35-3016

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by StyxCollector, Mar 20, 2004.

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  1. StyxCollector

    StyxCollector Man of Miracles Thread Starter

    I got my copy in the mail today ... while I haven't compared it to any of the other versions I have (the bootleg mini-LP sleeve aluminum MoFi and the newer Japanese TOCP pressing from around 98 or so), this one sounds really natural. This one didn't come cheap ($80 including shipping), but so far, I'm happy with it. I listened to it both on my bedroom stereo, as well as in my main room using my SA-8260 CD/SACD player.

    I detected no digital harshness whatsoever. This was always one of those CDs back in the days of Goldmine I was curious about but was never curious enough to ante up big $. Thank heavens for the Internet!

    I'll report back once I do some more comparisons. I'd be curious as I liked the bootleg MoFi releases.
     
  2. ascot

    ascot Senior Member

    Location:
    Wisconsin
    Enjoy it! :thumbsup: If you're going to spend that kind of money on a CD, it had better be worth it and the Toshiba Abbey Road certainly is.
     
  3. I listened to this twice yesterday, once on headphones and once on speakers.

    It was a gift, would you believe it? I must have the world's cleanest karma.

    I have never even heard the legit one.

    The japanese one uses the same tape as the Toshiba-EMI japanese half-speed mastered vinyl, that's why it sounds so good. Made so long ago, it never occurred to them to screw with the sound on it.
     
  4. stever

    stever Senior Member

    Location:
    Omaha, Nebr.
    And apparently it ain't getting any cheaper. I'd love to get this CD too, but two available copies on eBay are currently at $105 and $300. :mad:
     
  5. KeithH

    KeithH Success With Honor...then and now

    Location:
    Beaver Stadium
    StyxCollector, congrats.! It's a definite winner, though I'd be curious to hear how it compares to the TOCP copy.
     
  6. Dob

    Dob New Member

    Location:
    Detroit
    I happen to like the mini-LP Mofi boot better...please compare and let us know what you think!
     
  7. Dob

    Dob New Member

    Location:
    Detroit
    The CP32 CD version seems to be readily available...would this be the second pressing? It just might sound as good as the CP35, at a fraction of the price.
     
  8. KeithH

    KeithH Success With Honor...then and now

    Location:
    Beaver Stadium
    The CP32 disc definitely came after the CP35, and I'm pretty sure the CP32 disc is the second pressing. It doesn't have the black-triangle design. I wonder how it sounds. I've read a lot of comments stating that no other digital version of Abbey Road stands up to the CP35 disc.
     
  9. StyxCollector

    StyxCollector Man of Miracles Thread Starter

    CP32 should be the same as the one released everywhere else in 87. The CP32-5332 pressing was released on October 19, 1987 according to this website:http://www.bekkoame.ne.jp/~garp/off01.htm. LIB is CP32-5333, MMT CP32-5334, etc.

    So no ... not the same.

    Also, in the early days of CDs, most were 3500 yen. Around 1985/6, the price for full new issues was generally 3200 yen. (I've been collecting Japanese pressings WAY too long :p )
     
  10. KeithH

    KeithH Success With Honor...then and now

    Location:
    Beaver Stadium
    I've read here that the CP35 disc was not sourced from the original master tapes and that the disc released in the US in '87 (and still in print today) was. If that's true, then the CP32 disc may also have been sourced from the master tapes. So, the '87 discs had the potential to be great. Something went horribly wrong. ;)

    As for price, the catalog numbers of Japanese CDs in the early days often were a tip-off to the retail price. For example, CP35 discs retailed for 3500 yen and CP32 discs retailed for 3200 yen.
     
  11. Goodyear

    Goodyear New Member

    I think the CP35 Abbey Road disc (the "black triangle" CD) was mastered from 1st generation tape copies in Toshiba EMI's vaults. It's all assumptions, of course, but that's the most realistic explanation.

    The '87 Beatles CDs were just poorly mastered (bad mastering equipment IIRC), plain and simple. :)

    EDIT: Also, isn't the CP32 disc just the Japanese release of the '87 Beatles CD masterings?
     
  12. StyxCollector

    StyxCollector Man of Miracles Thread Starter

    So here's the shootout:
    CP35-3016 (original Japanese pressing)
    TOCP-51122 (1998 Japanese pressing)
    LP sleeve aluminum MoFi boot (MFSL 1-023)

    I did this unscientifically and quickly on my bedroom stereo (B&W DM601 speakers, Marantz PM-7000 stereo amp, Marantz CD-6000OSE CD player). I set the tone to complete flat ... something I normally don't do (I usually boost bass a bit), but I wanted a bit more of a fair shoot here.

    I started with the TOCP pressing. Honestly, it wasn't bad IMHO. Drums were OK, esp. Ringo's hi-hat. Seemed to have good dynamics, although I think "Something" is a good example where the mastering seems to have been weird a little. George's vox sound a bit like a veil is there.

    Then I popped in the MoFi boot. Definitely sounded more quiet. The drums did not have the same dynamics; actually in listening to it, I thought it sounded squashed, at least on "Come Together". It opened up a bit on "Something"; George's vox definitely sound a bit more natural on this one I think, but something's still weird. Refined I guess is the word here - nothing comes and bops you in the head, but it definitely sounds like a veil over the recording that I didn't notice before against the TOCP pressing. There was a weird evenness to the whole disc that I am now noticing.

    Then I popped in the CP35 pressing. George's vox do not sound like they have a veil, but I think it's the mix, actually. The organ stabs seem a bit more OK in the overall master/mix on this one. It's a bit quieter of a disc than the TOCP from my ears.

    Another song good to compare is "You Never Give Me Your Money" the piano on the TOCP sounds a bit digital (not too bad tho); vox are definitely up front. MoFi boot is definitely more reserved. The CP35 is definitely a lower volume disc; so for the sake of argument I cranked it a little. The piano sounded much more natural on this one. Paul's vox are also laid back in the mix/master in that good way. When the track picks up ("out of college ..."), the hi-hats really pop out at you on the TOCP and Paul's vox are definitely behind them; the bass isn't very good in the mix IMHO (granted the Hofner is really midrangey). The bass is much better on the CP35, Ringo's hi-hat definitely pops out, but it doesn't bite your head off, and is much more in line with the lead vox (altho again, I think it's a mix issue).

    So if I was ranking, the CP35 overall is the best here, and the TOCP is actually pretty good all things considered; seems like a brighter master with a bit less bass (both in sound and focus in the mix/master). The MoFi boot was way too inconsistent for my liking (sad to say). Not the way I remember it when I bought it. I'll have to do more serious testing on that one. Other ones in the series are actually decent.

    Oh well. That's why we collect, right?

    A good SACD mastering should smoke the CP35 if done right I hope.
     
  13. Dob

    Dob New Member

    Location:
    Detroit
    Wow...I had the opposite reaction. To my ears, the Mofi "Come Together" has a wider and deeper soundstage than the CP35, which sounded a bit pinched in comparison. The Mofi has more bass (which your system/ears may or may not welcome), and more overall "rock n roll" impact IMO. I did my comparison at a very loud volume level, however...maybe that made a difference.
     
  14. StyxCollector

    StyxCollector Man of Miracles Thread Starter

    I'm a bass player, and usually crank bass, but I wanted a fair shootout, so I kept low volumes and flattened everything. I just cranked the CP vs. the MoFi a bit (as much as I can at 12:40 AM). Kept EQ flat. Definitely more bass and a good soundstage. Overall, everything sounded good and the way I remembered it. At lower volumes as by my previous post, the MoFi sucked a lot.

    I shouldn't have to crank it to get this tho ... at lower volumes, the CP35 is definitely a winner. At lower volumes, the MoFi disc was anemic.

    So the MoFi goes up a notch to #2 if you crank volume; definitely less harsh than the TOCP. May be too refined for some, tho.
     
  15. I do all my a/b comparisons only slightly louder than conversation volume. There's usually only a narrow window in which your equipment does not step in and flatten the dynamics before your ears even get the message.

    I was listening to the $11k B&W 801's the other day (in a store, I have a somewhat less expensive setup at home), and it was true even of those speakers.
     
  16. KeithH

    KeithH Success With Honor...then and now

    Location:
    Beaver Stadium
    There's no excuse for that. Geez, I have older CDs that sound way better. An example is the CP35 Abbey Road! ;)
     
  17. KeithH

    KeithH Success With Honor...then and now

    Location:
    Beaver Stadium
    I don't want to delve too deeply into a bootleg here, but I am curious about this pseudo-MFSL CD. Does anyone know where it was sourced from?
     
  18. Dob

    Dob New Member

    Location:
    Detroit
    Needle drop from the MFSL vinyl.
     
  19. Dob

    Dob New Member

    Location:
    Detroit
    IMO, high volume levels are what separates the "men from the boys", and that includes equipment as well as recordings. If a recording or equipment is harsh, pinched, or unnatural sounding, high volume will exaggerate it even more.

    OTOH, I don't want to give the impression that I'm talking about 120db...I try for a realistic "performance" level. I'm familiar with the "dynamics flattening" that you mention and I don't push my amp (or my ears) that hard!
     
  20. KeithH

    KeithH Success With Honor...then and now

    Location:
    Beaver Stadium
    Thanks. That's what I thought.
     
  21. 22dRow

    22dRow New Member

    Location:
    USA
    I'm listening to the cp35 Japan black triangle Abbey Road right now and, while it does sound good, it's not as good as the UK vinyl, IMHO.
     
  22. Ed Hughes

    Ed Hughes Senior Member

    Location:
    phila.pa.
    I couldn't agree more. I bought this title back in 83, or 84 for $30.00. And it is still the one I pull out to play. I have not heard the mofi boots. Though i use to have the vinyl mofi box. :(
    Are the boots as good as the vinyl lps?
     
  23. Dave

    Dave Esoteric Audio Research Specialistâ„¢

    Location:
    B.C.
    The CP35 was sourced from analog and the CP32 series was sourced from digital copies, the same ones that the regular 87 CDs were sourced from IIRC. The mastering could have been better on the MFSLs IMO. They had the right tapes at least.
     
  24. Beatle Terr

    Beatle Terr Super Senior SH Forum Member Musician & Guitarist

    It's a keeper no doubt IMHO. Thought the 98 or 99 TCOP is nice also from Japan and sounds much better than my 87 Capitol Abbey Road CD does.

    I think Steve can answer as to why though. He's told me before in a thread here but I'm not certain I could explain it as to give a correct answer.

    Also notable of this is Mirror Spocks vinyl needle drop of a Japanese Pressing well known copy of Abbey Road Pro Use which may have been mastered differently from the other vinyl copies before it. This is of course a bootleg on CD but well worth the listen.
     
  25. john lennonist

    john lennonist There ONCE was a NOTE, PURE and EASY...

    Is the CP35 superior sounding to the CP32? Do both of them have the "Black Triangle" artwork on the disc?

    Thanks.
     
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