View Full Version : Yes: Fragile
Is there a better version of this album other than the Atlantic Gold cd, available on cd?
Claus
03-31-2002, 12:45 PM
The japanese (mini LP jacket) remaster sounds okay in my ears...
Hmmm... The Japanese HDCD remaster of Yes - Fragile has obvious dropouts and distortion to me. I believe we've discussed these remasters before.
Drew,
Yes I believe it has been discussed before. I guess what I really need is someone to be able to say yes I've heard the Atlantic and yes, such and such version is better.
John Buchanan
03-31-2002, 01:56 PM
The Japanese HDCD is the worst CD version I have heard.
Claus
03-31-2002, 02:08 PM
@John... I do not agree.
I have the japanese HDCD remaster... the very compressed Atlantic Gold CD... and the more compressed Yes Box set (remastered by Joe Gastwirt).
I did an A/B testing on my KRELL Cd player, and I say the HDCD is the best Fragile remaster... I don't say it's an audiophile remaster, but it's the best available remaster!
I also have the original english LP pressing... sounds worse in comparison against all remasters!
John Buchanan
03-31-2002, 03:00 PM
The forum has discussed this before.
Fragile (my copy was from the first run) had very severe distortion when there were any volume peaks at all. There were also drop outs. This was unforgivable in such a highly priced item, and I foolishly sold it to a local shop instead of through ebay. Listened to on a Studer D730 through Stax LNS/SRM 1 MkII headphones. Close to the Edge has similar faults, but to a lesser degree. Haven't heard either through HDCD decoding, but no other HDCD discs sound like this.
The gold CD has none of the above faults and sounds very clean to me. The Japanese copy must have been from a really bad tape.
Anyone considering this BEWARE!
Yessongs, Tales From Topographic Oceans (in particular) and Relayer are much better than the US versions IMHO.
I like the gold CD - beats any vinyl version I heard, although the original UK pressings would be good to check out, but I don't have a turntable anymore. I miss fiddling with cartridge alignment etc, and loved the BIG pictures on the covers instead of the postage stamp sized versions we now have (historical note - used to run a Breuer cartridge (modified EMT) or a Stax CPY cartridge and Model 8 tonearm, Technics SP 10 Mk 3 turntable, Audio Research SP 10 preamp, Audio Research D79A amp into Stax Sigma headphones with a Sony 552/702 player- ah those were the days)
Incidentally anyone else have experience with Jecklin headphones - much better dynamics than the Stax, even through an old Rotel amp
dbryant
03-31-2002, 03:39 PM
John -
You mention your copy of Fragile is from the "first run". Might Claus have a later issue? How do you tell the difference -- matrix #?
John Buchanan
03-31-2002, 03:50 PM
The catalogue number is different. I think the catalogue number on my copy was Atlantic AMCY 2731. I sure hope they did improve it!
I have the 2nd run. For awhile copies of the first run were going for $200 on Ebay. There was a separation of a year or two between them.
John Buchanan
03-31-2002, 04:06 PM
.... and does it sound like I wrote?
This is not some subtle difference:this is very obvious distortion. No effort will be required to hear it if it wasn't corrected.
John Buchanan
03-31-2002, 04:10 PM
the re-release catalogue number was AMCY 6291
Its pretty obvious to me. I'm actually at work (on Easter Sunday) so I don't have the disc right in front of me. But yes, the dropouts and distortion are there. Also on Close to the Edge (especially in the middle of And You And I) there's distortion.
YaQuin
03-31-2002, 05:29 PM
Originally posted by Claus
The japanese (mini LP jacket) remaster sounds okay in my ears...
I'm with Claus on this one. Occasional drop-outs aside, the sonics are better than any version available. The HDCDs just sound more musical to my ears. However, 90125 and Big Generator aside they are not quite audiophile quality.
YaQuin
03-31-2002, 05:30 PM
Originally posted by GammaSpace
I'm with Claus on this one. Occasional drop-outs aside, the sonics are better than any version available. The HDCDs just sound more musical to my ears. However, 90125 and Big Generator aside they are not quite audiophile quality.
Oops! I haven't heard the Atlantic Gold CD. I'm speaking strictly in comparison with the US Gastwirt remasters.
Ok, I agree that if you can get past the dropouts and distortions in Fragile and Close to the Edge, they do beat the '96 remasters and the Atlantic Gold Standard CD of Fragile (which I do own, btw). Unfortunately I cannot get past this, especially on the Japanese HDCD of Fragile.
I do agree that all other albums except the ones mentioned above, the Japanese HDCD's beat the '96 remasters hands down. But when this was discussed before, someone disagreed with me on this point.
Just goes to show you can't make everyone happy all the time!
John Buchanan
03-31-2002, 06:08 PM
I also can't get past the distortions and drop-outs on Fragile and CTTE - they make Fragile unlistenable for me when you can hear pristine quality on the gold CD. I found them so obtrusive I couldn't keep Fragile - soundstaging became pretty unimportant to me when there was so much ADDED distortion.
TFTO, OTOH, is way better than the US remaster.
TommyTunes
04-01-2002, 05:56 AM
Just to stick my 2cents in. I had the US Gold version and to my ears sounds like the US regular remastered CD (therefore I sold my Gold for $175). I have never heard the first issue JPN mini sleeve issue but have the new version and it sound very good. However if you are hell bent on hearing the best version seek out either a early issue UK LP (mine is A3/B3) or a CDR of it. To me its still the most natural sounding version. The US lp even early copies don't even come close.
I've been told the Atlantic Gold Standards version (which I bought in the summer of '94) is the same as the '96 remaster. I wish I would've bought the other 3 Gold Fragile's in the bin at the record store that day because they are going for a fortune on ebay.
I hold on to mine because I like the packaging on the Atlantic Gold Standard series and I Yes are one of my more favorite bands.
krabapple
04-14-2002, 10:58 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Drew
Ok, I agree that if you can get past the dropouts and distortions in Fragile and Close to the Edge, they do beat the '96 remasters and the Atlantic Gold Standard CD of Fragile (which I do own, btw). Unfortunately I cannot get past this, especially on the Japanese HDCD of Fragile.
Apart from the obvious distortion/dropouts, one should consider that the Japanese HDCDs are also *louder* than the Gastwirt/Marinos. Since differences in levels do correlate to 'preference bias', an objective comparison would involve level-matching. Not that I've done it myself -- I have both the HDCD and the gold Fragile, and prefer the latter simply because it doesn't sound as distorted to me.
John Buchanan
04-15-2002, 02:53 AM
I agree.
Maybe it sounds better if
1. you are listening to the re-release (it would have to be better)
2. you are listening through speakers
BUT through headphones, the HDCD is one of the more distorted CDs I owned (before I sold it). The distortion is not present on the Joe Gastwirt version.
Did anyone here compare the earlier and later HDCD versions in the hope of getting a better version?
Jim Ricketts
04-15-2002, 03:29 AM
Yes was one of my favorite bands way back when - saw 'em twice, once with Rick Wakeman and the other "in the round", way before 90125. Great shows! I have most of the original LP pressings but have been thinking about the new Greatest Hits collection - any comments on the sonic quality of this CD?
I didn't know there is a new Greatest Hits compilation. I do know that Rhino is supposed to have a new Yes boxed set out this summer. I've heard its supposed to have almost all their albums from The Yes Album to Big Generator on it.
I've also heard over on the ice magazine forum that the planned DVD-Audio of Close to the Edge (with a Dolby 5.1 remix) has been dropped due to the inability to find the original master tape and the individual multitracks. Kind of makes you wonder what they used for the Japanese HDCDs.
Instead they're planning on a DVD-Audio of Fragile. If this one gets dropped for anything vaguely resembling the same reason, then I'd say it's very likely that the Japanese HDCD's of Fragile & Close to the Edge didn't use the original masters.
I'm pretty sure that the Japanese HDCDs did not use the original master tapes. The distortion heard in Fragile, etc. seems to mirror the distortion heard on North American vinyl (if I remember correctly). So it looks like the Japanese releases used the North American tapes..... which were defective to start.
Can anyone confirm this?
Tullman
04-15-2002, 06:46 AM
I read somewhere that the Fragile atlantic gold cd was missing some time in the music. Therefore they discontinued production. The first run is unique and in short supply. I have the American release, the Japanese release and the Atlantic gold. The Atlantic Gold wins hands down. I haven't heard the Japanese version with hdcd so I cannot fairly judge that release.
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