I don't agree with Tom about 'Crime of the Century'...

[ericpeters]

Or I did not get the correct version.

Resulting the posts in this thread ( http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2189&highlight=speakers+corner ) I went out to buy the Speakers Corner copy. And I find espessially Ruby not good. Either this is personal preference or I dont have to correct version.
How am I able to determine if I have the speakers corner version? It is a 180 gram version but I has a A&M label which is different in colour.

[mcow1]

Really?, I loved mine. It was very open sounding and detailed, just great. (Was because while carbon brushing it during a bout with the flu last week I scratched the hell out of side 2 :( , but I have another on order)

[ericpeters]

Originally posted by mcow1
It was very open sounding and detailed, just great. (

That's just what's lacking, are there any numbers on it that I could check to verify it is the correct one?

[Humorem]

Originally posted by ericpeters
I went out to buy the Speakers Corner copy. And I find espessially Ruby not good. Either this is personal preference or I dont have to correct version.
How am I able to determine if I have the speakers corner version? It is a 180 gram version but I has a A&M label which is different in colour.

There is only one 180 gram version. If it's 180, it's the right one. And what does "Ruby" have to do with it?
TP

[mcow1]

Originally posted by Humorem


There is only one 180 gram version. If it's 180, it's the right one. And what does "Ruby" have to do with it?
TP

"Rudy" maybe? doesn't sound good?

[Todd Fredericks]

Eric,

I'm sure you're on top of this but is it possible that your VTA is a bit off or something else? I'm not meaning to be rude for suggesting but the SC's version of this album is incredibly spacious (to my ears). Maybe you have a bad pressing? What are some albums that sound good on your system. Maybe it's tuned differently?

Todd

[Humorem]

Adjust your VTA for 180; you may be tilted down in the back, causing the tonal balance to shift downward.
TP

[ericpeters]

My VTA is ok,

My record nowhere reads Speakers Corner, I can see that it is different from my original German Pressing but that's all. But the german "normal" pressing sounds better. :(

Should I be able to read somewhere "Speakers Corner"????

Yes it is Rudy, but I guess it doesn't even sound correct with a Ruby. :rolleyes:

[Humorem]

They don't put their name on the record, so it won't say SC anywhere. You can tell by the stampers if you know how to ready them though.

And your German copy may sound better; nobody said it wouldn't. My English originals sound better too.

But it should still sound amazing nevertheless, and if it doesn't, something ain't workin' right out there in Holland. Any and all of the above versions are demo disc quality.

TP

[ericpeters]

Ok I will try to point out the differences:

German version vs 180 gram version

Stampers:
Side 1: 393 647 -1s1 320 / AMLS 68 258 S1-2 320
(Inner grooves on the 180 version are way too close to the label IMO)
Side 2: 393 647 - 1s2 320 / AMLS 68 258 32 320

Label: White with small A&M logo / Grey with small AM logo and Letters A&M ibig in Gold

Front Cover: AM logo / AM logo with "SP 3647" under it.

On Rudy there's a passage with a kind of voice over news reading, you can hear some cymbals there. On the 180gram version you have to concentrate to hear them, as if they are recorded from another room. On the german version they are present and clear just like they sound life.

[ericpeters]

Originally posted by Todd Fredericks
Eric,

Maybe you have a bad pressing? What are some albums that sound good on your system. Maybe it's tuned differently?

Todd

I can't name them all but here are some examples:
Sonny Rollins - Way out west / Acoustic Sounds 180gr
Sheffield Lab - Track Record (All sheffields sound very good)
Robbie Robertson - Somewhere don the crazy river (Normal version)
Peter Gabriel - So / 1st release german pressing
Satchmo play king oliver / Classic 33rpm 180gr
Dave Brubeck - Time out / Classic 180gr (I also have a 80ties Digital remastered Columbia classic that sounds dull )
Any DCC 180gr
Eagles Hotel california

I can go on forever, but almost all 180gr pressings sound great except for some Simply vinyl releases.
I also have a lot of flee market old LP's (Mostly 60, 70 and 80 rock) that sound very good.

[Loud Listener]

I agree Eric.

I found it lacking in dynamics and a little compressed sounding. Slightly dull, and I have what I consider a bright cartridge (Blue Point Special).

And I haven't listened to the MFSL LP or CD in months so my perception hopefully isn't slanted.

Lots of surface noise as well on my copy, which contrary to what Tom says, does make a big difference to me. There is nothing better than a gorgeous sounding quiet LP.

But then again I don't have super audiophile high resolution equipment, but I like it with everything else I play through it.

I just accept that some don't sound as good.

[Chip Stylus]

Loud, if an lp sounds dull on your Sumiko cartrigdge, it has to be the lp.
Nothing pressed after 1970 is going to sound "warm" on that cartridge; I know, as I have one.

I end up playing lots of old Columbia "Stereo 360's" and mono / stereo "6 Eyes", Petula Clark on gold label WB and tons of "shaded dogs", as this stuff sounds normal and not too bright on my system. WOW, was that Tony Hatch a great producer, Petula sounds 100% 3D.

Hope this helped . . .

[Andy]

I like mine.

[Humorem]

Originally posted by Loud Listener

And I haven't listened to the MFSL LP or CD in months so my perception hopefully isn't slanted.

Play your MOFI's and compare them to the SC copy and let us know what differences you hear.
TP

[Loud Listener]

Originally posted by Humorem


Play your MOFI's and compare them to the SC copy and let us know what differences you hear.
TP

Tom,

I'll give it a listen this weekend and compare the two.

[Humorem]

Originally posted by ericpeters

On Rudy there's a passage with a kind of voice over news reading, you can hear some cymbals there. On the 180 gram version you have to concentrate to hear them, as if they are recorded from another room. On the german version they are present and clear just like they sound [in] life.

That is the sound of the trains station PA; it should sound like it's coming from far away in a train station. Whatever it sounds like, that's not a good test to determine if the SC record is good or not.

Let assume for a moment that your German copy is a little bright. Would you expect that voice to be more "clear"? Of course. That's what people say about CDs: they're "clear", "crisp" even. This is not necessarily a good thing. The tonal balance on the SC version is practically identical to my good British originals. Not dull. Not bright. Just right.

My British originals have more ambience and resolution, of that there is no question. At least 10% more. But the SC version makes every domestic, MOFI, CD and what-have-you other copy I can lay my hands on sound wrong and bad to varying degrees. The SC copy sounds right. My friend Kim demonstrates his Whisper system with that very record. He has people wanting the record after they hear it at his house. His system is not bright.

I have a few problems with the records you like. I think most of them are somewhat on the hi-fi-ish side (except the DCCs of course.) The Rollins disc is particularly awful, IMO. The Satchmo Classic disc is bright, IMO. Sheffield? Not my idea of naturalness. Here's a good test. There are two Nat King Cole albums on DCC: 2029 and 2047. Do you have them? One is a hair bright and one is a hair dull, or should be on a "neutral" system. How do they sound on yours?

TP

[ericpeters]

Sorry TP I the passage with the "far away" cymbals on Rudy is direct at the beginning, directly after singing "but he needs time" and not where train stations PA can be heard. I think the whole beginning of Rudy just sounds a lot more compressed on the SC version.

I don't have the Nat King Cole's, It's very difficult to get DCC LP's here, I have to order them from the US and customs will ad 30% to the already high prices.

I listen to the SC Crime again and side A seems to be a lot better. But basically the point is that this version in not better (IMO) than the original. The DCC albums I have are a lot better than other versions of the same records, so maybe my expectations were to high.

BTW I normally describe most CD's (especially DDD's) as harsch and not crisp. There are exceptions of course.

[mcow1]

Originally posted by ericpeters
Sorry TP I the passage with the "far away" cymbals on Rudy is direct at the beginning, directly after singing "but he needs time" and not where train stations PA can be heard. I think the whole beginning of Rudy just sounds a lot more compressed on the SC version.

Now my curiosity is piqued. And now that my scratched copy has been replaced (thanks, Tom) I'm going to have to give this passage a listen.

[Tristan]

When Tom sold me the SC copy it simply blew me away.
Leagues apart from the Mofi, but Tom then advised me to find
an original UK pressing. I'm happy enough with this copy, it is a true
journey into audiophelia with great music to boot. Without a doubt, one
of my favs in rock, sound and music. Mine plays quietly, too.

[Humorem]

Originally posted by ericpeters

I listen to the SC Crime again and side A seems to be a lot better. But basically the point is that this version in not better (IMO) than the original. The DCC albums I have are a lot better than other versions of the same records, so maybe my expectations were to high.


Eric, I of course never said it was better than the original. Just the opposite in fact, as I said my original British is the best version ever. (And as a general rule, a rule that operates 98% of the time, the right original pressing will beat any 180 gram version ever made, DCC excepted of course.)

You may have a hot German copy. If you do, congrats!

Or you may have a German copy with a hot top end that complements either your taste or your system.

There is no way in the world the SC version is dull, as you said early on in this thread. That's a red flag to me. People used to tell me that DCC LPs were dull, and that they liked MOFIs better, and that is an internally consistent view, because on their systems it was no doubt true.

But tonal neutrality is key here, and we have yet to establish a way to determine the tonal neutrality of anybody's system on this forum. It's very difficult, without hearing the stereo in question, to know what it's doing, or what the listener wants it to do.

But I did think of a record that many people may own that is a good test: the MOFI LP of Blood Sweat and Tears. When the brass comes in on The Blues, Part 2, it should sound as bright as live brass, but no brighter. In other words, as bright as possible--brass being comprised of very "bright" instruments--but any brighter would be wrong. Set your volume control so that the brass is as loud as live brass, as loud as your system will play without breaking up; everything else will fall into place: the opening organ passage will actually be fairly quiet. It's sounded like that to me (on my good Columbia pressings) for 20 years, on the hundred different versions of my stereo I've played it on. It's so dynamic and present it's scary. I get goose bumps just thinking about it.

Do you have that one? How's it sound?

TP

[NealW]

eric

about that 30% surcharge on records, just get red trumpet or whoever you order your LP's from to put a nominal figure on the US customs form i usually say $10 even if the LP's are worth $150. that way you won't have to worry. we south africans cannot afford to pay extra with the way our currency performs.


neal

[Tristan]

Tom,
Intrigued by the BS&T MoFi LP. What does a nice, clean used copy go for?
Do you have one that sounds great?
Thanks,
-Tristan

[Humorem]

$75 for mint, might be cheaper on ebay, and worth every penny!

Out of 65 Anadiscs, it's one of the two or three they got right. And people complain about Simply Vinyl's track record! Sheesh.
TP

[ericpeters]

Tom, first of all dont take the topic title not too seriously or personal, I just wrote a new topic because the original "I do agree..." had a lot of replies and someone may have overlooked my question.

I don't have a lot of Audiophile rated LP's, so again I try to comment on the few rock/pop LP's I have in this category, and try to avoid european pressings, becouse there's nothing to compare. If you have any of these give a comment

(I could also be listening to music when writing this :(

SC - Crime of the century (well forget that one)

Simply vinyl (as far as you regard this Audiophile)
- Supertramp/Breakfast in america, sounds very neutrall but I was impressed with the long intro on "The long way home"
- Dire straits/love over gold, my original was very scratched but I do think it was better.

MFSL
Neil Diamond - Jazz Singer, Can't find anything wrong with it, clear but not bright.

CBS 1/2 Speed mastere
Streisand - Guilty, I like the detail in Barbara's voice, clear but not bright

DCC
-Elvis 24KT, Very good Elvis in general but I have the feeling there's something wrong with elvis' voice on both In the getto and SUspicious minds. More like the microphone was not the best choice.
-Steve Miller/Greatest Hits 74-78, Neutral and good, I like the bass on Swingtown, haven't listened a lot to the rest.
-Queen, a night at the opera, very good I never heard the things they did with the electric guitars.

Led Zeppeling/BBC sessions, Can't find anything wrong with them

Normal US pressings I have (and remember)
- Yazoo/Upstairs at Eric, Apart from the wrong band name (it says YAZ) the bass is very good on this record.
- EW&F/ I AM, Too Bright
- Cameo/She's strange, way too harsch and bright

I also have some German Audiophile samplers called "Stereoplay Highlights" in 1/2 speed mastered and DMM versions all 180gr. I like the 1/2 Speed mastered in general much more than the DMM.
There are some versions on there that a much better than the standard LP's I have like: Lou Reed - Walk on the wild side, Or Drivers Seat from Sniff 'n the tears.



And for my system. I think this is bright already: Oracle delphi, ATOC9 ML, OL250 Arm, Rotel amps and Apogee Duetta Signature loudspeakers. The speakers are very unforgiven in my opinion, they made me aware of the mastering and recording differences that exist.
I have a CD of my wife playing, not with me...she used to be in what we call Fanfare, a Brass and drum group 30 to 40 members and this Fanfare was several times world champion in the "Concert class". They play march music but also film music like Raiders of the lost ark. There are several professional recordings of this Fanfare and when I played it on my system for my father In law (the chairman of the Fanfare for 30 years) he was thrilled and convinced this was just like the real thing. (I know that Audiophile tend to listen more critical than the musicians themselves)