Saxophone Colossus on LP as marketed by Acoustic Sounds

[Humorem]

Just got mine today. Pulling it out of the sleeve, I quickly checked the dead wax for mastering info, as is my wont.

Lo and behold, I find no mention of Kevin Gray or Steve Hoffman, the mastering engineers I thought might be responsible for the wonderful sound I heard when I placed it on my "TT". Just an area that's crossed out, about the length needed to write their names.

Now why would someone go to the trouble of crossing out their names? And if they didn't master it, who did? Phil De Lancie gets the credit on the cover, but as I know his work pretty well by now, having played 200-300 OJC titles in the last ten years or so, I would say it's pretty obviously not his "sound".

In fact it sounds just like my amazing DCC LP of the same title. Heavens to Betsy. But that's just me again, trusting my ears more than the record cover. Sorry. Won't happen again.

For those of you who own a TT, check it out.

For those of you who own a microscope, can you make out the names that are crossed off? Just curious.

TP:confused:

[John Oteri]

Why would Analogue Productions cross out Steve and Kevin's name on the leadout groove? You would think they would want to tell the world!

Weird.

[Dave B]

Not if they don't plan on compensating Kevin and Steve for their work. I don't see how this is legal but I assume it happens quite a bit.

[Angel]

I'm sure they have their reasons. How do we know what they are? Maybe they meant to sticker the LP jackets with Steve and Kevin's name, but then changed their mind, or ran out of time, or forgot or something?

Who knows? The Acoustic Sounds website is one of the links on Steve's homepage. I'm sure they would be happy to answer.

[Todd Fredericks]

Hmmmmm? Maybe they read Tom Port's joke about scratching out "hot stamper" numbers or clues. The Acoustic Sounds people better not come to my house and try and scratch their names off of some my favorite records. Some one should take their razors away from them! That doesn't seem right giving someone else credit on the DJ for a job that Steve and Kevin Gray did. We better get the word out there who did the work...

Todd

[trhunnicutt]

Saw the same thing on my copy of Saxophone Colossus.

There's a rumor that it is the same metal stamper as the one used to press the DCC version -- that's why the information is crossed out.

Again, I can't substantiate that, but that's the rumor. Probably why it sounds like the DCC.

Looks like you have good ears, after all, Tom :)

Tom H

[Humorem]

Originally posted by trhunnicutt
Looks like you have good ears, after all, Tom
After all what? The abuse I've been dishing out, or the abuse I've been taking?

Anyone who can't tell that's the DCC should find themselves a new hobby, assuming they know this album at all. The OJC version sounds just like the DCC with a little leaner bass and a little zip on the top, standard operating procedure for mastering engineer Phil De Lancie.

I used to tell my customers to just keep the OJC if they didn't really love the album; it's close enough. Now I would say that the difference depends on how good your stereo is. Better stereo, bigger difference. If your stereo is dark enough you might even prefer the OJC version, heretical but true.

But since the new LP is $20, everybody can get one and enjoy it, right gang? A great album that belongs in any collection, IMO.

TP

[trhunnicutt]

Originally posted by Humorem

After all what? The abuse I've been dishing out, or the abuse I've been taking?TP

Both. It was intended as a joke. Keep having fun with the music.

TRH

[Ronflugelguy]

I have asked several times in this forum in regards to who was mastering the AP OJC reissues, and I have never gotten a straight answer! What's up with this?:confused:

[Angel]

Well, If there is no straight answer, it's not the end of the world either. I mean, there are political reasons, etc.

If I remember correctly, there was never ever a mastering credit on any MoFi CD's, Gold or otherwise, right? I don't remember the outcry over that. There wasn't one. Nobody cared. Now, thanks in part to Steve Hoffman's Forum and the old DCC Forum, we DO care who masters our music, especially if we are paying a premium price for it.

I'm sure audiophile labels realise this. Somewhere else on Steve's Forum, Acoustic Sounds is touting Doug Sax's mastering work on their SACD's. If they are being hazy on who is mastering what on their OJC LP's, there is a darn good reason. Let's give them the benefit of the doubt.

I mean, if you're worried, you can always wait for the reviews in the audiophile press. If something stinks, it will make itself known, right?

[Ronflugelguy]

Angel, I'm sure it will all come out in the wash sooner or later!

[Humorem]

Almost all the OJC's (LPs of course) were mastered by George Horn. That's what I always thought was the case. You can recognize his writing on many of them.

Acoustic Sounds is just taking the metal work and pressing on better vinyl. Good for them. I tried to get people to buy OJC's for ten years. Finally gave up, put them on sale and got rid of them. People want heavy vinyl. Why, I don't know, but they want it. So Chad is giving it to them.

TP

[Humorem]

Here's the scoop from Kevin Gray, with whom I just got off the phone.

Seems the guy at RTI who was in charge of scratching out the DCC catalog number off the stampers got a little carried away and scratched everything off, including the names of our dear leader and his right hand man.

An innocent mistake. Down the road there may be a sticker for the jacket giving credit where credit is due, but for now, we just have to put up with the good sound and know in our hearts where it came from.

And by the way, buy this record. It is outstanding.

TP;)

[Dave B]

Thanks for the update Tom. I guess Angel was right, there is an innocent explaination.

[Todd Fredericks]

Thanks for the info, Tom!

[John Oteri]

Nonetheless, it's silly that they didn't sticker over the incorrect Phil DeLancie mastering credit. No audiophile would buy his stuff.:eek:

[acoustic sounds]

Hopefully, this will clarify the confusion concerning our OJC 180-gram LP reissues.

Acoustic Sounds’ goal with these $20.00 OJCs is to offer these titles on high-quality, 180-gram vinyl. We have never made any claims that these pressings were remastered. We still offer many of these titles on standard OJC vinyl for $10.00. Most of our customers, however, appreciate having the option to purchase superior quality pressings. The choice is theirs. The response to this project has been overwhelmingly positive, and we have many more titles scheduled for release.

Acoustic Sounds licensed metal parts from Fantasy and are using these to press the new 180-gram versions. This was addressed in Michael Fremer’s Analog Corner in a recent issue of Stereophile magazine. Is the sound of these 180-gram versions significantly better than the standard OJCs? No, but these were nice sounding records to begin with. The better pressings do subtly enhance the sound with a bit better warmth and body and of course the surfaces are much quieter and flatter compared to the standard OJC vinyl.

All of these titles are pressed at RTI (www.recordtech.com), which is arguably doing the best 180-gram pressings extant. In fact it was RTI that was responsible for creating the 180-gram standard and in the process raised the bar for what is expected from an "audiophile" pressing. This is the same company that pressed the DCC LPs that are so highly regarded. They continue to press for Analogue Productions, Classic Records and many other audiophile labels. Typically, records pressed by RTI on 180-gram vinyl sell for $30.00 regardless of the mastering pedigree. We feel that charging $20.00 for records of this quality is a more than fair return on one’s investment.

Acoustic Sounds decided to reissue Saxophone Colossus at the request of many customers who wanted to see this great title available again on high-quality vinyl. We could have taken the same route as we did with the other OJCs and used the Fantasy parts. But knowing that the DCC Saxophone Colossus was superior (thanks Steve and Kevin!), Chad decided on a different option for this release. He got written permission from Bob Siner, the current President of DCC, to use their stampers to create the LP. This was also cleared by Steve Hoffman and Kevin Gray. At the request of Don MacInnis, the owner of RTI, the information in the dead wax was scratched out by RTI personnel to avoid confusion at the pressing plant. Only the DCC ID number should have been scratched. RTI’s plating manager, Dorin Sauerbier, thought that Don’s instruction was to have any reference to DCC removed, including the names. The rescribed ID number corresponds with the information on the label and jacket.

Acoustic Sounds has many exciting vinyl reissues planned that should take us through 2003. Rest assured that when we do remaster a given title, this will be clearly indicated, as is the case with the CCR LPs. These should be available for shipment in the next few weeks. This was one of the first projects done at the newly upgraded AcousTech mastering studio. Judging from the accolades the advance copies have received, vinyl-loving audiophiles will have much to rejoice about. We would again like to thank all of our loyal customers for their continued patronage and support.

Sincerely,

Richard C. DuPlantis
Acoustic Sounds, INC.

[Dave B]

Richard, I'm sure I speak for all of the members of this forum when I say, "Thank you for your detailed clarification". If you have spent any time here I'm sure you know we are always on the lookout for the best sounding pressings. We are also, of course, big fans of Steve and Kevin's work. I already own the DCC gold disc of this album and will be placing my order for the LP soon. I'm sure many others will be doing the same.

[Angel]

Yes, thank you Richard!

Can't wait to hear it.

[John Oteri]

Yeah, me too!

Thanks to all at Acoustic Sounds!

[Ronflugelguy]

Richard, thanks for clairifying this matter. I have three of the initial titles,and they are very good. I only had a quqlity problem with the Johnny Griffin LP. That's when I thought that the metal parts might be worn, but it was replaced for me and was a bit better (It might have just been a pressing defect).

But again, thanks for making these available!

[Clive Camm]

Let's see if I understand the full situation correctly. The accoustic sounds 180 gram was the DCC, mastered by Steve Hoffman, et al.

From the home page of this site, I see the same album on the restoration/remastering list.

So are there going to be two different 180 gram releases on the market or is this the same project?

If there are to be two different ones, mastered by the same person, which is the one to acquire?

Thanks

Clive
who, just an hour ago, happened to be listening to the OJC pressing of the same album

[Humorem]

Clive, let us hear your report of the comparison when you make it.
TP