What do engineers mean when they refer to BEATLES MONO LIMITER SPLATTER?

[Angel]

I hear some engineers talking about limiter "splatter" in regards to Beatles recordings. BUT, just the mono ones. Why is that? Why not the stereo as well?

And, what IS limiter splatter anyway?

[Steve Hoffman]

Angel, you hang out with an interesting crowd.

Let me go feed the dogs and then I'll come back and write you something on it...

[Steve Hoffman]

Okay, dogs fed.

Hmmmm. Let me pick a Beatle song that has MLS (Mono Limiter Splatter).

"A Hard Days' Night" song off of the CD. We probably all have that.

Listen to the drums. Notice how the cymbals are "splattering"? In other words, doing weird distorting things, breaking up, overloading, etc.? That's called splatter, and is caused by the compressor/limiter being hit too hard in mixing. The sound has no where to go, so it just distorts. The cymbals are the first to go, because of the high-frequency information on them.

In this case, it's hard to tell what the heck cymbal Ringo is using. The open hi-hat, the crash or ride? Who knows?

Now. Why not stereo? Well, the No. 2 studio at Abbey Road used a Fairchild stereo limiter that was MUCH kinder than the British Joe Meek type mono limiter in use then. The Fairchild DID NOT SPLATTER LIKE THAT no matter how hard it was pushed.

Now, this is not to say that a channel of the multi-track tape would not have used the splattering mono limiter during the recording process. So, there might be some splatter on the main rhythm track, and the voices, but usually not as radical as during the mono mix stage.

Listen to "She Loves You". Can you count the edits in that wacky song? Plenty of them. There is one near the end: "Pride Can Hurt You Too". Way more top end on this little edit piece for some reason. You can really hear the splatter on the cymbals in that section.

It happened outside of Abbey Road as well. Listen to "Surfin Bird" by The Trashman. After the middle silly part, when the music comes back in. When the bass hits, the entire thing turns to splatter.


Just a part of history.

So, you see? Now you know why a vintage Fairchild stereo tube limiter/compressor costs 10 grand now!

[RetroSmith]

Just for the record....'She Loves You" has a whopping SEVEN edits!!


I've always felt thats why they never did a stereo mix of that song, because they would never get a stereo version to match the 45 with all the edits.


mikey

[RetroSmith]

Oh yea...i forgot....

Steve, your comment about the compressors joe meek used were right on the money.

Joe used, primarily, a 1933 valve (that means 'tube", boys)
Limiter that was so old that the tubes were the GIANT tub valves.

The one he had was used by the BBC in the 30s, 40s and 50s, to broadcast LOUD radio transmissions. No wonder there is "splatter" on Joe's masters!!

mikey

[lukpac]

Originally posted by mikey5967
I've always felt thats why they never did a stereo mix of that song, because they would never get a stereo version to match the 45 with all the edits.

Or because the tape was gone by the time they needed a stereo mix...

[Patrick M]

Originally posted by mikey5967
Just for the record....'She Loves You" has a whopping SEVEN edits!!

I found this on the 'net some time back:

0:13 (seems more like a tape dropout)
0:38 "splice" (minor sound change)
0:52 splice (minor sound change)
1:16 splice (major sound change)
1:23 splice (MOST MAJOR sound change)
1:29 splice (major sound change)
1:31 splice (major sound change)

[Andrew]

That would be an interesting challenge: attempting a stereo remix if the SLY session twin-tracks suddenly returned from the great beyond.

[RetroSmith]

Well, i'll tell ya what guy...

I have a sync up of the 45 SLY and the backing to the German SLD and its just about perfect.


Personally, I believe that the backing track to SLD was one of the completed instrument takes from the She loves You sessions that was deemed "usuable" for the German version.


mikey

[GMav]

The stories I have heard (and read) about She Loves You (my favorite song of all time, AND the first record I ever bought), was that the master was "wiped" (by mistake), which I guess they call erased in the industry. Are there other stories about it being lost or destroyed?

I would have loved to have been able to hear it in stereo. Bought my mono single (with picture sleeve) back in September of 1963. Cost me a whopping $0.29. Still have it to this day. What a song.

[GuyDon]

I would have loved to have been able to hear it in stereo. Bought my mono single (with picture sleeve) back in September of 1963. Cost me a whopping $0.29. Still have it to this day. What a song. [/B][/QUOTE]


Although She Loves You was issued in the U.S. in September of 1963, the picture sleeve was not available until the Swan black label reissue in December 1963/January 1964. Regardless, a great first record to purchase!

[Dave B]

Originally posted by GregMav
Cost me a whopping $0.29. Still have it to this day. What a song.

What a return on investment! How many times have you enjoyed listening to that twenty nine cent purchase? I'll bet it's only cost thousands of a cent per play. Best of all, if it's in any kind of decent shape you could probably sell it for a hundred times what you paid! Not bad. There aren't many hobby's that pay off like that.

[Sckott]

Listening to "Can't Buy Me Love" in Mono, the sound is there. The UK Stereo version, the high-hat sounds is gone. The splashy Ringo sound is something even *I* can't live without at times.

[Steve Hoffman]

I hear you Sckott, but it helps that the crucial rhythm track is up nice and loud on the beautiful mono mix. The weak stereo mix just bites for that song.

Same deal for "I Want To Hold Your Hand", eh?

[Bob Lovely]

Yeah, I spent the evening going through the collection listening for Mono Limiter Splatter and believe I found some on those old DC5 recordings as well.

My friends already think I am "nuts".

Steve, thanks for the continuing historical education!

Bob :cool:

[Sckott]

Same deal for "I Want To Hold Your Hand", eh?

Yes, and the mere fact that the whole rhythm drives so hard and exciting on the MONO "Can't Buy Me", it's hard to avoid. Kinda takes the 'rock' out of the song, in stereo. Love those old studio tricks.

I was about to mention the DC5 sound is notorious for this cranked-up (but crunchy) sound. "Anyway You Want It" "Glad All Over" and "Do You Love Me" come to mind, but it's ALL over the DC5.

This is a good example when although the high-frequencies get crunched, the whole sound is...welll.....you know.

[Steve Hoffman]

Yeah it's been "Joe Meeked".

Of course Adrian K., the DC5 engineer was Joe Meek's disciple.

[Humorem]

Originally posted by GregMav
Bought my mono single (with picture sleeve) back in September of 1963. Cost me a whopping $0.29. Still have it to this day. What a song.
Hey man,
My first record too. Don't know when I bought it; still have it, paid 89 cents at Sav-On in San Diego. That was their single price back then. Used to take my two dollar weekly allowance and buy two 45's with it. I was ten years old and addicted already. Ten of thousands of dollars of professional therapy later and no cure in sight.:eek:

TP

[Angel]

Originally posted by Steve Hoffman


Hmmmm. Let me pick a Beatle song that has MLS (Mono Limiter Splatter).

"A Hard Days' Night" song off of the CD. We probably all have that.

Listen to the drums. Notice how the cymbals are "splattering"? In other words, doing weird distorting things, breaking up, overloading, etc.? That's called splatter, and is caused by the compressor/limiter being hit too hard in mixing. The sound has no where to go, so it just distorts. The cymbals are the first to go, because of the high-frequency information on them.

In this case, it's hard to tell what the heck cymbal Ringo is using. The open hi-hat, the crash or ride? Who knows?

Now. Why not stereo? Well, the No. 2 studio at Abbey Road used a Fairchild stereo limiter that was MUCH kinder than the British Joe Meek type mono limiter in use then. The Fairchild DID NOT SPLATTER LIKE THAT no matter how hard it was pushed.

Now, this is not to say that a channel of the multi-track tape would not have used the splattering mono limiter during the recording process. So, there might be some splatter on the main rhythm track, and the voices, but usually not as radical as during the mono mix stage.

Just a part of history.

So, you see? Now you know why a vintage Fairchild stereo tube limiter/compressor costs 10 grand now!

Dear Steve,

Bless you! I wish you could have been my engineering instructor. Every class wouldn't have been such a struggle with the zzzzzzz's.:D

Thank you again. I doubt I'll be able to listen to my old mono Beatle records in quite the same way again.;)

[GMav]

Originally posted by Humorem

Hey man,
My first record too. Don't know when I bought it; still have it, paid 89 cents at Sav-On in San Diego. That was their single price back then. Used to take my two dollar weekly allowance and buy two 45's with it. I was ten years old and addicted already. Ten of thousands of dollars of professional therapy later and no cure in sight.:eek:

TP

Wow!!!.....$2.00 a week allowance? Mine was .25 cents. Ah...1963. I was 7 years old then, and hopelessly addicted as well. 39 years later, and tens of thousands of dollars spent on audio equipment and vinyl (and to a lesser degree CD's), and I am fairly satisfied with the sound. Maybe some professional therapy for me next? Gee Humorem....maybe we should go to therapy together? :D

[John Carsell]

Originally posted by mikey5967
Just for the record....'She Loves You" has a whopping SEVEN edits!!


I've always felt thats why they never did a stereo mix of that song, because they would never get a stereo version to match the 45 with all the edits.


mikey

Interestingly enough, the flip side "I'll Get You" has never appeared in true stereo either.

Wonder if those tapes met the same fate.

[lukpac]

Originally posted by John Carsell
Interestingly enough, the flip side "I'll Get You" has never appeared in true stereo either.

Wonder if those tapes met the same fate.

It seems as if the tapes and all documentation somehow went missing even before early 1964. While it's not *that* odd that the tapes are gone, it does seem pretty odd that the tracking sheets are gone as well.

It should be noted that about half of the PPM session tapes and *most* of the WTB session tapes are now gone. When they were thrown out is another issue. I've heard some things that suggest they stuck around until 1966. Of course, other tapes, like Love Me Do, were thrown out right away.

[RetroSmith]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by lukpac
[B]

It seems as if the tapes and all documentation somehow went missing even before early 1964. While it's not *that* odd that the tapes are gone, it does seem pretty odd that the tracking sheets are gone as well.


>>>>>Yes, it seems that all the materials for the sessions of She Loves You, I'll Get You" sessions , ect are "missing".
Its generally accepted that the tapes were stolen by an Abbey Road employee.

From my chair, there is no way the tapes were intentionally thrown out, by the time of "She Loves You", the Beatles were becoming very popular, and I'm sure EMI sensed some $$$ from those 4 nutty guys.

Why that tape hasnt surfaced is another story, as so many "stolen" studio tapes have turned up on the collectors market.

The entire session reel for the (i think) "From Me To You" sessions turned up on a bootleg Cd recently, all the takes, everything was there. so , SOMEONE had been sitting on that reel for years, it seems before they sold it to the bootleggers.

Wouldnt it be great if he two track "She Loves You" session reel is sitting in someones basement and finally came to light?

[John Oteri]

Mikey, do you really believe that someone pre-1966 would remove "She Loves You" from Abbey Road? For what reason?

To erase it is most likely. If the tapes weren't there in 1966, they are gone. Dumped, like "Love Me Do", "P.S. I Love You", "I'll Get You", etc.

C'mon, the "Love Me Do" and "P.S. I Love You" master reels were dumped EVEN BEFORE THE FIRST LP WAS RELEASED. They had to "fake stereo" them up in 1963 for the stereo album!!!!!



Dumped!

[Bob Lovely]

John,

It is amazing how many masters wind up in the hands of collectors, bootleggers and unsuspecting third parties. There are many such stories, especially from the R n R years of the late 50's and early 60's. You are correct, however, in that many valuable masters were simply erased.

Bob