View Full Version : "Nevermind" Gold CD. Hearing loss opinions.
Question: Is it worth my $30, or should I just stick with my standard Geffen issue (sans 'Endless, Nameless')?
Bob Lovely
03-20-2002, 04:57 AM
AKA,
I have the Nevermind Gold CD and feel it is worth having, as long as you keep in mind the limitations of the original master. From my experience with far too many alternative recordings is that they are pretty heavily compressed and compression is liberally used to create a certain "sound". Nothing wrong with that if that is the creative intent, but Nevermind will never be a sonic masterpiece either.
I recommend it if you really enjoy the music.
Bob
Steve w
03-20-2002, 07:08 AM
It's definitly worth $30. A guy in a stereo store told me the gold version of Nevermind sold over a million copies! That's pretty incredible.
pjrashid
03-20-2002, 07:12 AM
The MOFI Nevermind is awesome...it blows you away. Just crank it up!
:D
Sckott
03-20-2002, 07:20 AM
The vinyl is going for $100 used on eBay more or less. Egad, I bought mine at $23!
Hey, at least I did something "right" in buying that one.
Shoes4Industry
03-20-2002, 07:54 AM
I haven't heard the gold CD (I'm assuming we're talking the MFSL version), but the MFSL vinyl is way better than the Geffen CD, IMO so I'd assume that the gold CD would be good.
Originally posted by Steve w
It's definitly worth $30. A guy in a stereo store told me the gold version of Nevermind sold over a million copies! That's pretty incredible.
A million copies??? Boy, that's hard to believe. If it's true, I would try to pick one up used. It's better than the Geffen, but the difference isn't earth shattering. I was never unhappy with the sound of the standard CD - but I wouldn't part with my MFSL either.
My 2 cents,
Nevermind on MFSL blows away the Geffen release, not by alot though. It's really a shame that it comes with the now familiar MFSL smiley faced eq. settings.
Humorem
03-20-2002, 10:26 AM
I couldn't disagree more strongly. All the CD versions are excruciatingly painful, IMO. You can listen to them if you pretend that the bad sound is the fault of the recording. I used to do that too. Now I know better.
Here's what I had to say in my catalog about the new German LP of Nevermind:
"A PERFECT recording, the best of its kind, ever. The drums are perfect. The bass is perfect. The guitars are perfect. The vocals are perfect. Now how in the world could that be, you ask?!!
"Allow me to explain. Of course I'm not using perfect in the idealized sense that there is no possibility of improvement. No human creation outside of a mathematical construct can be perfect. What I mean is that this mastering of this recording sounds so right that upon hearing it my critical faculties immediately shut down and are bypassed, allowing the pleasure center of my brain to experience the music directly, just as I would if the band were right in front of me. It's perfect in the sense that while I'm listening to it I don't want anything to change and I especially don't want it to stop. That's the kind of perfection I strive for on this earthly plane.
"At the levels at which this record was playing it became a total immersion experience. Who needs four channels when two can sound like this!? After awhile I left the room and I had to laugh: my ears were ringing! I told you it was loud! When you feel the need to play your music louder that's a good thing. It's your brain saying "That's working. I like it. Give me more!" Listening at low levels is like kissing through a screen.
"The MOFI gold CD sucks. The Simply Vinyl LP sucks. The original domestic LP sucks. They are all thin, bright and consequently harsh, utterly inappropriate for music like this that requires prodigious amounts of bass. This import is the first and only version that sounds the way it should: PERFECT. (I don't own an Anadisq to audition.)
"One further note. I was under the impression that this is a digital recording. Digital? This is the most analog sounding pure rock recording I have ever heard. If it's digital all you digiphobes out there are going to have to find some way of explaining why it sounds so good. Me? I could care less. As an empiricist I need no explanation. The experience is more than enough."
TP :eek:
Humorem
03-20-2002, 10:33 AM
Originally posted by Dob
A million copies??? Boy, that's hard to believe.
Boy, is it ever!
Do you think if MOFI ever sold a million CDs they would go out of business? They probably never sold a million CDs of all the titles they ever did put together.
Actually, they could have, but just barely. A hundred titles selling ten thousand copies, yeah, that's a million. If they had a hundred good titles like that. Did they? Nobody knows...
TP
I may be in the minority but I don't think the MFSL cd is much better than the original Geffen release. I recently purchased the GOld version and was disapointed when I A/B'd it against the original. Is the MFSL better, maybe just a small amount.
My recommendation would be if you don't have a cd copy of Nevermind and don't mind spending $30+ get the MFSL. If you already have the geffen copy, don't spend the $30+ for the MFSL cd. If you want the best sounding version, get the MFSL lp or better yet call Tom at betterrecords and let him sell you the import lp.
Originally posted by Humorem
You can listen to them if you pretend that the bad sound is the fault of the recording.
Heh, heh. This reminds me of what I heard on our local "alternative" (read: youth market) radio station. A listener had called up and requested "A Flock of Seagulls". The DJs spent about 5 minutes knocking this guy and the band saying things like, "I hate to break it to you, buddy, but they SUCK!!!"
I happen to like the band. What did I do? Feel terrible because of my poor taste? Feel bad because I suddenly realized that I must not like them after all, because these "authorities" pronounced them sucky? Burn my Seagulls CDs when I got home?
Nope - I just LAUGHED.
Thoughtful of you to include that excerpt from your catalog. What was that phrase again - Qui bono?
FabFourFan
03-20-2002, 03:17 PM
Originally posted by Humorem
"At the levels at which this record was playing it became a total immersion experience. ...
After a while I left the room and I had to laugh: my ears were ringing!
I told you it was loud!Jeez, Tom, have you ever measured how loudly you play your system? Just how loud was it??
One unfortunate irony of having a 'big' system is that you can then use it to damage your hearing - permanently!
Remember, once you damage it, you can't never fix it! :eek:
But I'm sure that I'm not the first person to say this to you, am I?
Hello, hello, am I? Hey, Tom, did you hear what I said??? :eek:
Humorem
03-20-2002, 03:44 PM
Dear Dob, you misread what I wrote, I think.
"Them" refers to the CDs, not the band. Read it again. I like the band, so I wouldn't put them down. The CDs I put down because they suck.
My whole business is based around telling people they should buy one version of a recording rather than another. Most of the time it's the version I sell. That's why I sell it, because it's good. It's a "better record", so to speak.
In this case I sell both and make four times as much money on the CD (LP profit: less than $5. MOFI CD profit: $20+.) Like more than a few have pointed out, I will try and talk you out of the higher profit, worse sounding version of anything I sell if you give me half a chance.
Now some people are impervious to my offers of better sound--I won't mention any names, you know who you are--and for those people, many of whom seem to like what MOFI does to the sound of music, I am glad to take their money. The highest profit items I sell are MOFIs. They are also the easiest. I never have to talk anyone into buying them. I never have to discuss their sound quality at all as a matter of fact. People seem to know how good they are without me saying a word. They want them no matter what I say about them. Must be because I don't know what I'm talking about. If only I had better equipment, maybe then I could appreciate the sonic superiority of MFSL. After twenty fives years of improving my stereo, I just can't seem to get it right. Can't get those MOFIs to sound good. Guess I'll have to keep tryin'. Check with me in 2027; it might take me another 25 years as progress in this area has heretofore been rather poor.
I feel bad for the MOFI guys, but what can I do? I can't go to their houses and try to fix their stereos--they won't let me, and I wouldn't want to try. Like Hercules cleaning out the stables, it would be a big job. I can't use his approach: if I diverted a river through their living room they wouldn't like it very much. But I'm being way too harsh. Live and let live. For those people that think the MOFI is A-OK, go with god. For those that don't, call me. You, I can help.
TP
:eek:
Humorem
03-20-2002, 03:54 PM
Originally posted by FabFourFan
One unfortunate irony of having a 'big' system is that you can then use it to damage your hearing - permanently!
Remember, once you damage it, you can't never fix it! :eek:
I had a girlfriend long ago who was an audiologist. Her advice, bottom line: it's really hard to damage your hearing. You have to play something that's constantly loud for a long period of time, or extremely loud for a short period of time. My stereo can do neither. Think about all the drummers in the world. That instrument is ten times louder than my stereo could ever get. Are they deaf? How about all the 60 year old jazz drummers still playing around town. I've seen a dozen of them. They talk in a normal voice just like I do. Deaf people don't do that.
Your brain shuts your hearing down to protect it. That's where the ringing comes in. You would have to overwhelm these protection circuits to cause damage, and it just can't be done without amplified instruments or machinery or airplanes or guns or something else like them.
But it's loads of fun to try! IMO.
TP:rolleyes:
Angel
03-20-2002, 04:05 PM
With all do respect, as a recording engineer, I totally disagree.
Our ears are fragile and have to last a lifetime. I'd rather be able to hear 10k when I'm 80 then play "Nevermind" loud now.
Turn it down, especially compressed stuff like Nirvana. You don't realise just how loud it is when the music is supercompressed. It's like standing in front of a running airplane engine for hours at a time.
Trust me.
Originally posted by Humorem
"Them" refers to the CDs, not the band. Read it again. I like the band, so I wouldn't put them down. The CDs I put down because they suck.
I understood that. The point I was making (sorry if I was obtuse) was that I have listened to that CD hundreds (I think) of times and I thoroughly enjoyed every listen, on an artistic AND sound quality level. I think the CD sounds great. Now you're telling me (or implying, whatever) I'm wrong, and that in fact the sound is BAD? Can't be. I don't care if the vinyl sounds better (which I doubt), the CD sounds good. I don't have to compare it to anything. I'm measuring the quality of the sound by MY emotional reaction, same as you.
If I like a record deeply enough to listen to it that often, no one can tell me that it actually sounds bad, because to my ears it doesn't.
Humorem
03-20-2002, 05:10 PM
I'm going to guess your system is a little "darker" than mine, tonally, Dob. Otherwise I can't see how that bright CD would be very enjoyable. I had to repaint my livingroom after playing it.
If you played ten DCC CDs in a row, and then that one, would you say to yourself "Hmmmmm..., something sounds funny..." or would you say "Ah, the sound is still yummy. DCC, MOFI, it's all good." Just what would you say?
TP
Where can one find the MoFi gold for $30?
Andy,
Usually ebay, but I'm sure there are a few places that may carry it.
pjrashid
03-20-2002, 05:34 PM
Andy,
I was visiting Acoustic Sounds website today: www.acousticsounds.com and they had some MOFI gold for under $30. In fact, some of the least desirable cds were priced at $10! You might also want to check out Direct Music: www.adirectmusic.com the current owner of MFSL.
BTW, I had an interesting conversation with the person on the other end of the phone today when I ordered the Patricia Barbour SACD to be relesed by MOFI next month. He already had listened to the new SACDs are said they they sound fantastic. He said that MFSL is continuing with the last released cd, that is, the Duke Ellington Blues in Orbit SACD and will also be releasing non-SACD gold discs as well. Good luck!!
Originally posted by Humorem
I'm going to guess your system is a little "darker" than mine, tonally, Dob.
Well, my favorite system has JBL 4311 monitors that have the "presence" and "brilliance" controls (level controls for the crossovers) and I normally have both of them set at 4 (on a 1 to 10 scale), so I guess that would make them quite dark sounding...
Bright sound quickly gets overwhelming at high volumes. On top of that, I find that the midrange and treble drivers sound "overworked" (loss of detail) at high volumes unless I tame that high end. I do admit that this system sounds a tad dull with some CDs, at low volumes, but it sounds about right with most (rock) CDs (like the Nirvana CD) at medium to high volumes. But what knocks me out about the Nirvava CD is the incredible punch and energy of the sound, which may not be strictly hifi (too processed), but it still gives me goosebumps.
My favorite CD of the '90s, BTW.
I know that CDs (vs LPs) and solid state (vs tubes) exacerbate this brightness problem, but I have quite a few CDs that sound well balanced on my solid state system, even with both controls set at "10". A fair amount of those CDs have Steve's name on them.
It would be a heck of a lot easier to tailor the sound of my hifi if I only had one record in my collection. And if I only listened to it at one volume.
Humorem
03-20-2002, 08:35 PM
Hey Dob,
How does well recorded material like DCC Elvis, Nat or Roy sound on your system?
TP
Humorem
03-20-2002, 08:39 PM
Originally posted by pjrashid
BTW, I had an interesting conversation with the person on the other end of the phone today when I ordered the Patricia Barbour [sic] SACD to be relesed by MOFI next month. He already had listened to the new SACDs are said they they sound fantastic.
He said they sound fantastic?! Really?! Imagine that!
I went to buy a used car yesterday, and the salesman said it was a really good car, so I bought it.
I guess both of us are in for a real treat.:rolleyes:
TP
AudioGirl
03-20-2002, 09:10 PM
Originally posted by Humorem
He said they sound fantastic?! Really?! Imagine that!
I went to buy a used car yesterday, and the salesman said it was a really good car, so I bought it.
I guess both of us are in for a real treat.:rolleyes:
TP
Simmer down TP... :D :D
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